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Topic Title: Replace plastic trunking
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Created On: 03 November 2017 04:58 PM
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 04 November 2017 09:52 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16008
Joined: 13 August 2003

The sockets are fixed on the wall externally about 10inches from the floor

(I presume that by "externally" you just mean on surface boxes (not outside the house))

So running the cables horizontally at about 10" above floor level, chased into the plaster, would mean they're within safe zones then? (so not need any further protection).

- Andy.
 04 November 2017 10:06 AM
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dustydazzler

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As above , if there is enough slack on the cables . Rip out the mini trunking and offer the cables up in line with the boxes.
If everything lines up then you see within the prescribed safety zones.
Chop in cables and back boxes.
Make good and redecorate the room

Bonza
 04 November 2017 10:31 AM
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davezawadi

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Answering the OP.
A decent chaser (Makita) costs about £400, and you need a suitable vacuum cleaner (I use a Henry). You can recover this cost on one decent job, so I don't know why everyone hasn't got one. It takes about 1 minute to do a metre of chase, very tidy so filling in is easy. You just knock out the centre with an SDS chisel and the job is done, and the same with box holes. Very little mess and tidy work what more could one want?

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 04 November 2017 10:45 AM
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mapj1

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Seconded on the two disk chaser - I've got an 'indecent' one, being a bit down market from Makita. but apart from the fact I like to screw a bit of roof batten to the wall as a guide and put some sheeting down for dust, its good for a anything over perhaps a foot of chase. Like the SDS, if it broke, I'd buy another one read for next time. Its not broken yet.
Dust management is the key however. If for some reason the vacuum stops sucking, its suddenly horrible.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 04 November 2017 10:49 AM
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dustydazzler

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As above if you have more than 2 or 3 long chases to do , a twin disc cutter with appropriate vacuum attached is boss.

You could use a normal disc cutter and get someone to hold a vacuum nozzle in the dust stream but it will still be messy.
 04 November 2017 01:59 PM
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sparkingchip

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Blimey, talk about making hard work of a bit of Saturday afternoon DIY work.

Presumably the circuit is RCD protected, so just chase it in inline with the sockets without spending a fortune on kit.

Andy
 04 November 2017 02:12 PM
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sparkingchip

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Originally posted by: noobdiyer

Originally posted by: mapj1















consider the horizontal line at socket height.







Oddly before 1989 we never had these rules and some folk used to bother to do everything square but plenty did not, and if anything I see more spiked cables in newer places. But I don't do that much out in the wild these days. ...




The sockets are fixed on the wall externally about 10inches from the floor


Does it show a height for the sockets in that diagram?

So long as everything is level it's okay. From a practical point of view, no one is likely to be hanging pictures 10" off the floor are they?

Don't lose the plot rooting around forums trying to find a complicated answer to a simple problem.

Andy B.
 04 November 2017 02:31 PM
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leckie

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I have a metabo chaser and a vacuum that the appliances plugs into. Very quick indeed.

I am with Andy B, chase the walls out by you method of choice with the chase level with the sockets, wire in T&E, done.

And of course notify building control!
 04 November 2017 02:44 PM
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sparkingchip

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What has building control got to do with it?

Andy B.
 04 November 2017 02:48 PM
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leckie

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Well if you have effectively rewired the circuit, I think that it would be notifiable. Chances are you would be replacing much of the original cable, installing it in a different location (higher), and reconnecting it all. It would require testing. If you retire a house it is notifiable isn't it? Or have I be notifying for no reason?
 04 November 2017 06:56 PM
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noobdiyer

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Job done hired a professional electrician who will do the job properly and sign it of, fairly decent price too.
 04 November 2017 09:44 PM
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sparkingchip

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No notification is required to the council building control, a simple one page minor works certificate is sufficient.

Andy
 04 November 2017 10:10 PM
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dustydazzler

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Don't forget planning permission and a full structural survey
 05 November 2017 10:08 AM
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leckie

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Now that's interesting, when does an alteration become a new circuit?

So if we assume the OP is only looking to remove the wiring from the ring main, chase in conduit and fit the same cable into the conduit, it's just a minor alteration? If the cable is not long enough, so it is replaced with new cable, is it still just a minor alteration? Even though the circuit accessories have all been removed and the entire circuit required retesting?

So at what point does it become a new circuit and notifiable?

To me, if you rip it all out, and the only thing left the same is the back boxes, it's rewiring, a new circuit, an EIC is required, and it's notifiable.

Or are we not required to notify a rewire at all...
 05 November 2017 10:32 AM
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AJJewsbury

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So at what point does it become a new circuit and notifiable?

For me only if you're creating a circuit that wasn't there before.

Simply replacing a cable was specifically listed as non-notifiable even in the original version of AD P.

Likewise adding extensions to an existing circuit (if not in a bathroom (or kitchen in the original version) etc).

Nowadays (for England at least) you could indeed do a complete like-for-like re-wire without requiring notification - if and only if - the CU wasn't replaced. It's the CU replacement that triggers notification. (Along with additions or extensions within zones of a bathroom or anywhere in a room containing a sauna heater or swimming pool).

- Andy.
 05 November 2017 04:55 PM
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sparkingchip

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I seem to remember that the original interpretation of part P allows an entire circuit cable to replaced without a notification to the council building control.

Notifications are required for new circuits and replacing an existing cable is not creating a new circuit, merely repairing an existing circuit.

Andy B.
 05 November 2017 05:47 PM
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geoffsd

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Originally posted by: sparkingchip

No notification is required to the council building control, a simple one page minor works certificate is sufficient.



Originally posted by: leckie

To me, if you rip it all out, and the only thing left the same is the back boxes, it's rewiring, a new circuit, an EIC is required, and it's notifiable.


The type of certificate has nothing to do with whether it is notifiable or not, and vice versa.
 05 November 2017 07:40 PM
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dustydazzler

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I was recently told that wiring a circuit into an existing consumer board is non noticeable

You only need to notify planning control if it's a new board
 05 November 2017 09:12 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 1760
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New circuits are notifiable. That's it.

There may be a quibble about what is or isn't a new circuit but which is better?


Accepting a reason why something may not be notifiable, or

trying to find reasons why it might be?
 05 November 2017 09:44 PM
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leckie

Posts: 4397
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Well in the OP's case I think he is taking out all the wiring, just leaving boxes on the wall, and rewiring it. That is a new circuit.

If you retire a house, just because there were lights, sockets in the building, do not mean it's not an installation of new circuits.

I couldn't careless as it cost me peanuts to notify work, but if we are saying that a rewire is not creating new circuits unless they are additional to the original then that is plain daft.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Replace plastic trunking

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