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Topic Title: EICR Remedial works certification requirements
Topic Summary: Understanding the full certification requirements for Remedial works
Created On: 31 October 2017 02:46 PM
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 31 October 2017 02:46 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

Hi Guys,

Ive been completing multiple EICR's for a while now and once completing the remedial works, i'm questioning whether i am completing the correct certification.

so far the procedure ive been doing is completing an Initial EICR, outlining whether satisfactory or unsatisfactory and outlining all classification codes for recommendations/requirements etc.

once completing this i have been sending this back to my client, along with a quote to address the outlined issues.

once given the go ahead to complete the works, and completing the works, i have been updating the certificate with all changes and circuits retested on this certificate and giving this back to the client.

i have concern, though unable to confirm the exact requirements through the regs, that i should be completing Mwc and Eic's (if required) as well as the updated Eicr's.

is this correct or will the new updated EICR suffice?
 31 October 2017 03:02 PM
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NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

We tend to issue an EIC or MWC, whichever is appropriate and reference the previous EICR on the certificate. So its clear that the cert is rectifying any unsatisfactory issues.
 31 October 2017 03:07 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

Thanks Mate, do we understand this to be a requirement or more a method of making it clear to the client of what work has been undertaken?
 31 October 2017 03:22 PM
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NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

My understanding is you should issue a certificate for work that you have done. An EICR is not a certificate it is a report, so would not be adequate for certifying new work. On an EICR there is no section to claim responsibility of design, erection etc of work undertaken.
 31 October 2017 03:29 PM
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dustydazzler

Posts: 1444
Joined: 19 January 2016

MWC for each circuit worked on

I guess after completely doing all the repairs you could re do a brand new eicr (if the client is happy to pay twice)
 31 October 2017 03:32 PM
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NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

There wouldn't really be any need for another EICR, would there. The first one combined with the MWC's would be enough.
 31 October 2017 03:36 PM
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dustydazzler

Posts: 1444
Joined: 19 January 2016

I guess it all depends how much time passes between the first eicr and the repairs.
Anything over 12 months and a fresh eicr might be plausible
 31 October 2017 03:41 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

It is a shame that there is not reference made specifically to remedial works in BS7671 OR GN3.
Though you make good observation, and you are most probably correct.
 31 October 2017 03:44 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

I think our client is specifically looking for a 'Satisfactory' report for proof of compliance for insurance.
I think completing an Unsatisfactory EICR and then a MWC/EIC would be insufficient for them as they would not have necessary proof for the muppets that work in insurance companies that the site is now 'Satisfactory'
 31 October 2017 03:48 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 15990
Joined: 13 August 2003

The procedures shouldn't favour the person/organisation doing the EICR also doing the remedials (in fact many argue they should be independent to avoid vested interests) - so Unsatisfactory Electrical Installation Condition Report plus certificate(s) covering each and every C1 and C2 = Satisfactory. There should be no need to re-issue the EICR (as that would favour the inspecting party doing the remedials). If the customer wants a EICR with the word "satisfactory" on it, and is willing to pay the extra, I don't see a fundamental objection (other than being a waste of paper...).
- Andy.
 31 October 2017 03:52 PM
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NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

Just put a statement on the EIC saying that the previous EICR could be considered as satisfactory after the rectifications.
 31 October 2017 03:57 PM
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Delbot321

Posts: 185
Joined: 06 November 2012

The procedure detailed using MWC or EIC is the most appropriate. If you carry out minor repairs, such as fixing a broken socket, at the time of test it could reasonably be argued that the test results etc were carried out as part of the inspection and no further documentation is necessary.

What you need to be careful of is that a client may have one contractor carry out the EICR and another carry out repairs. If you tie the remedial repairs to getting a satisfactory report summary you could be accused of hiking the price or similar sharp practices.

If an insurance company or client wants a "satisfactory" report then they probably need advising on what is actually required and why. If they are insistent then they either need the report done again or the original amended by the original issuing contractor stating why it was re-issued and any re-inspections or tests carried out - obviously this retest is going to attract a fee relevant to the work involved.

At the end of the day an EICR is a report on the installation when it was carried out. For a large site you would probably never achieve a satisfactory across all the buildings at the same time. The report and certificates is purely a form of evidence that the installation is being managed and maintained in line with the standards expected.
 31 October 2017 04:07 PM
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dustydazzler

Posts: 1444
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If a client wants a satisfactory report after all the repairs then do another report and charge them for it

I guess they are looking fir a report with no codes on it
 31 October 2017 04:11 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

Thanks for all the opinions and advice again guys.
Currently we are responsible for completing the EICR's and associated remedial works.
Whilst i see your point, it should essentially be the clients responsibility to dish out the remedial works to another contractor once we have completed an EICR, if the client is willing for us to complete both, then i'm not going to turn that away.

I pride myself on my honesty and transparency but of course, as we use sub contractors, i am also very much relying on their honesty also.
 31 October 2017 04:12 PM
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Philgb4

Posts: 18
Joined: 18 October 2017

Originally posted by: dustydazzler

If a client wants a satisfactory report after all the repairs then do another report and charge them for it



I guess they are looking fir a report with no codes on it


exactly that Dazzler
 31 October 2017 04:15 PM
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dustydazzler

Posts: 1444
Joined: 19 January 2016

Then strip it down to the bare nuts and bolts , put everything right and re Do a new eicr

Charge accordingly
 31 October 2017 05:44 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9550
Joined: 22 July 2004

At the risk of pouring water on troubled oils, and confusing the insurance folk further ..
The reference forms are just that, for reference, and the division into minor works and full installation cert is often more or less fuzzy at the boundary.

If it is required, there is nothing to stop you inventing new form entirely, a 'remedial work certificate' if you wish, or more sensibly just adding an extra page to the EIC or minor works certificate to say that the work described herein corrects all the defects listed in installation report XYZ, and so at the time of writing the installation is now in a satisfactory condition for continued use until the date of next inspection, subject to the same limitations of scope as that original inspection.

(Errors and omissions excepted, advice offered without prejudice or commitment, your mileage may vary, and no you can't have any money back, and stop nicking all the chocolate biscuits...)

-------------------------
regards Mike
 31 October 2017 09:41 PM
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leckie

Posts: 4389
Joined: 21 November 2008

Well I have a very secret method that nobody else knows about. I carry out a report and detail the observed non-compliances and normally attach a code. I then often elaborate on the observations giving written details as well as any supplementary details in the form of sketches or photographs so that the client actually understands the problem and locations in the format they can receive. Then they have a decision to make. Whether they act on the contents of the report or nor, and if so how.

Now if they want me to arrange for any remedial or upgrading action required I would then get cracking. And issue MWC Or EIC's as appropriate referencing the details to the report. Sometimes it's just a simple letter confirming that certain items on the report have been attended to and that the installation is now considered (by me) safe for continued use.

It's a novel approach, but it works for me.

Edited: 01 November 2017 at 02:38 AM by leckie
 31 October 2017 10:05 PM
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Alcomax

Posts: 243
Joined: 12 November 2009

A mixture of mikes and leckies replies are the way to go. Issuing another report stating " satisfactory" is dodgy practice at best and fraudulent at worst.

As others have stated Eicr is a report not a certificate. If the insurer/ client really does need to see the word "satisfactory" after remedials, a separate craftly worded, short letter is the way to go, in addition any EIC or MWC that may be required.
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