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Topic Title: Good article on the future of vehicle charging.
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Created On: 11 October 2017 07:47 PM
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 11 October 2017 07:47 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 756
Joined: 09 March 2012

This article came up today, I dont think anyone on here has mentioned it before.
http://fes.nationalgrid.com/me...court-thoughts-v12.pdf
 11 October 2017 09:21 PM
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psychicwarrior

Posts: 555
Joined: 18 October 2010

It adds interesting subject 'dilemas' to go with those mused over in previous discussions had on this forum. These 'mass charging' points will be some setup!
 11 October 2017 09:28 PM
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nad

Posts: 399
Joined: 14 January 2005

Alan, thanks for the link. Does anyone know why they don't simply change the car battery at a petrol / battery changing station?

**jeez I've got a long password to remember now

-------------------------
Nad

*Regularly edited due to spell cheque misdiagnosis
 11 October 2017 10:24 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16083
Joined: 13 August 2003

Does anyone know why they don't simply change the car battery at a petrol / battery changing station?

It would mean changes to the car design and probably some standardisation of the car/battery interface (possibly not just electrical, but communications & cooling) - but nothing beyond the wit of mankind I would have thought. It's what the bottled gas industry has been doing for many years, so not even a new business model.
- Andy.
 12 October 2017 08:09 AM
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Zoomup

Posts: 3422
Joined: 20 February 2014

Originally posted by: alanblaby

This article came up today, I dont think anyone on here has mentioned it before.

http://fes.nationalgrid.com/me...court-thoughts-v12.pdf


There is a nice picture in the article showing a moped electric vehicle parked in the road gutter and its charging lead running from a building across a pavement. A lovely tripping hazard. Question: The lead is affixed to the pavement with some sort of sticky tape. What will the owner use if the pavement is wet say on a rainy day?

Z.
 12 October 2017 10:15 AM
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broadgage

Posts: 2448
Joined: 07 August 2007

Changing the battery, rather than charging it in situ would not be viable for several reasons.
Firstly the batteries are built in, and not intended to be regularly removed.
Secondly the battery is expensive and no one wants to get an old one in return for a new one.
And finally there are so many different designs.
 12 October 2017 11:10 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16083
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Firstly the batteries are built in, and not intended to be regularly removed.

Merely a feature of the current designs - not a reason why future designs need adopt the same restrictions. There are plenty of other "appliances" that have unpluggable Li-ion batteries.

Secondly the battery is expensive and no one wants to get an old one in return for a new one.

That presumes the vehicle owner will own outright a particular battery - why should that be the case? No-one worries about getting a dirty old gas bottle in exchange for a nice looking one when buying calor gas even though you paid a nominal amount for the first bottle - as long as it holds the gas OK. The battery packs need only come with a guarantee of performance for the one discharge cycle you've paid for. The battery itself is merely (returnable & reusable, deposit paid) "packaging" for the charge you're buying. (And like the lemonade bottle of yore, the supplier will rotate out old bottles as they become damaged or worn, the on-going costs included in the "refill" price").

And finally there are so many different designs.

Again that's only a design 'challenge' - typically there's no need to fix the design of the whole thing - just the pack/vehicle interface. A decent interface design should allow for differing or later improvements in technology on both sides. Charging stations might even offer higher performance batteries at a premium or lower performance ones at a discount - like they currently do for 'super' and 'regular' petrol.

- Andy.
 12 October 2017 11:57 AM
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potential

Posts: 1641
Joined: 01 February 2007

Hmmm. Since when has rational thought been an influence on design variation?
Different manufacturers will produce different solutions to the battery problem and none of them will be transferable or interchangeable from one to the other. Just wait and see.
The gas cylinder comparison is not similar to the battery problem either. It is what is inside the battery that is of concern not what it looks like on the outside.
The idea that millions of batteries weighing upto a ton will be able to be exchanged with ease is pure pie in the sky too.
Then there is the charging problem.
It may all sound completely "do-able" but I doubt it will happen for the simple and unavoidable practical reasons of size, weight, charge time and energy needs.
 12 October 2017 11:59 AM
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Delbot321

Posts: 185
Joined: 06 November 2012

Quite a good article that starts to recognise that it is likely people will "charge up" in the same way that we currently "fill up". Existing petrol stations could change in appearance to "coffee shops" or similar. Likewise you would charge you car at the same time as doing your weekly grocery shop or similar shopping.

What they still haven't recognised is that most people don't need a full charge of 300 miles a day. I fully accept that some people need this some days and they will need the service station with a fast charge etc. But the vast majority of people can go several days to a couple of weeks on a single fill up or charge up. On this basis they are still over estimation the amount of energy needed - that's not to say there won't be some problems, just not to the level they show.
 12 October 2017 08:07 PM
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psychicwarrior

Posts: 555
Joined: 18 October 2010

My car battery is heavy - i better get onto the weights if I have to lift one, two or how many out to charge :-)

Any way..likely there is already a technology in the wings waiting to be let loose on to the stage.... at great profit...ripped off from some good Samaritan genius who was prepared to just give it to the world (bit like that great man Tesla) for the good of everyone.

Having watched a few mind bending documentaries on encounters with aliens and the possible technology.....who knows what 'they' have. I mean...where did velcro really come from (see Men In Black for the answer haha )

\m/
 13 October 2017 01:38 PM
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nad

Posts: 399
Joined: 14 January 2005

I know the Israelis were trialling Battery Swapping Stations about 10yrs ago but I think it failed as no-one wanted to buy the few or only type of cars suitable.

Using swappable modular batteries makes sense to me. I live in a block of flats and could at least charge at home - perhaps in a fire proof box. - but no problem with exported PME. * +

The problems highlighted above don't seem that difficult to overcome when compared to the massive upgrade that will be required to our power distribution networks to cope with fast-charging. Smart meters are part of this as they will want to incentivise us into charging off peak.

* and without paying the extra cost incurred by third party owned road side chargers
+ I am guessing there must be at least a perceived safety issue with the public removing these batteries?

-------------------------
Nad

*Regularly edited due to spell cheque misdiagnosis

Edited: 13 October 2017 at 02:25 PM by nad
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