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Topic Title: Cables behind skirting boards
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Created On: 07 September 2017 05:27 PM
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 07 September 2017 05:27 PM
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dustydazzler

Posts: 1445
Joined: 19 January 2016

Mate asked me round to help pull up some old laminate flooring and take off shirting boards in his flat , having new real wood flooring laid.
To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones.
This flat is less than 10 years old.
I know new build wiring is rough as a BADgers , but this is taking the biscuit.
Thoughts ?
 07 September 2017 09:33 PM
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mapj1

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1st thought,
its not really in a zone but its not likely to be used to hang pictures, so real risk is low.
2nd thought
when he refits his skirting, he should glue it rather than nail it.
3rd thought
is the new floor thick enough you could have a void between floor and wall, and lose the cable into that?
4th thought, I'm assuming T and E, but there are cables that would be permitted with earthed foil inside..

-------------------------
regards Mike
 07 September 2017 09:42 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: dustydazzler


To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones.


Which of the wiring safety zones are breached?

-------------------------
:beer)
 07 September 2017 09:42 PM
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dustydazzler

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The irony is the skirting were nailed in place with ring nails and a pain to get off. I'm amazed the only damage to the cabling was a couple glancing blows to the outer insulation.
He will be gluing the skirting back in place once the new floor is down.
Not a nail or nail gun is going anywhere near those cables.
From an electricians point of view it just seems a rough way to run cables in when they could have just been capped under the plaster.
That being said I have seen plenty of phone and data cables clipped behind skirting in the past
 07 September 2017 09:48 PM
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dustydazzler

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Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: dustydazzler





To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones.





Which of the wiring safety zones are breached?


They aren't in the traditional safe zones that one would expect if you look at the picture of the old zone illustration diagram ?
 07 September 2017 11:29 PM
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OlympusMons

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Originally posted by: mapj1

1st thought,

its not really in a zone but its not likely to be used to hang pictures, so real risk is low.

2nd thought

when he refits his skirting, he should glue it rather than nail it.

3rd thought

is the new floor thick enough you could have a void between floor and wall, and lose the cable into that?

4th thought, I'm assuming T and E, but there are cables that would be permitted with earthed foil inside..

1 I suppose it depends on whether you consider a skirting board to be part of a wall (painters wouldn't), and whether the cables have been installed in the wall. you could look at it as surface fix with a wood capping.
3 the gap around the new floor is left for expansion of the floor, cables might be crushed if put in there
 08 September 2017 07:16 AM
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ebee

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Ruffbadgering indeed.
Certainly not in a zone unless 50mm deep.
Capping is irrelavant .

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 09 September 2017 08:40 AM
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tomgunn

Posts: 3929
Joined: 25 May 2005

What about wiring fixed behind coving around the rooms ceiling?

Tom

-------------------------
Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders
 09 September 2017 08:59 AM
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daveparry1

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Nothing wrong with that Tom.
 09 September 2017 09:06 AM
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ebee

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Originally posted by: tomgunn

What about wiring fixed behind coving around the rooms ceiling?



Tom


permitted zone

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 09 September 2017 09:17 AM
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dustydazzler

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Laying a cable behind decorative coving is quite a safe place for it.
I don't thing I have ever seen anyone hang a picture directly off their decorative ceiling coving and certainly never seen a diyer fix coving in place using 3 inch cut nails
 09 September 2017 10:55 AM
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ebee

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I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying.

ping!!! pin pierces cable

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 10 September 2017 10:12 AM
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: daveparry1

Nothing wrong with that Tom.


Well... theres a fing!

Tom

-------------------------
Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders
 10 September 2017 10:15 AM
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: ebee

I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying.



ping!!! pin pierces cable


True... BUT, you shouldn't ever put a nail through the coving as you then need to make good to the coving and they are easy to damage.. what you should do is to lightly tack a few 3" wire nails / similar beneath the actual coving...

But.. I didn't think it was acceptable for that area to run cables... need to learn more before I drop off of my perch!!

Tom

-------------------------
Tom.... (The TERMINATOR).

handyTRADESMAN

Castle Builders
 10 September 2017 11:02 AM
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ebee

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Tomm,
I didn`t actually mean a "pin" to pin it up with but more like 2" ovals etc
Rather like "hoovering up" with a Dyson etc

(Yes I use 2" ovals or 5 x45mm long screws when repalcing floorboards etc - tin hat ready!)

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 10 September 2017 04:20 PM
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Jon74

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Originally posted by: ebee

I must admit of all the zones the top 150mm of wall is my least favourite (along with the corners formed by two walls) - when fixing up coving it oft gets pinned up awaiting adhesive drying.



ping!!! pin pierces cable



In reality though - how many times have you been called out to fix a fault with a nail/screw through a cable in a vertical/horizontal safety zone vs in the 150mm from top/corners.... I don't think I've ever had a callout for the latter. Electricians know about safety zones... majority of home-owners don't seem to!
 10 September 2017 09:47 PM
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ebee

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I put that down to the fact that most of us would avoid the corners like the plague so less chance there is actually a cable in that zone anyway.

Wheras the verticals might be expected by some and the horizontals to a lesser (but appreciable ) extent

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 11 September 2017 05:01 PM
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ArduinoXR

Posts: 47
Joined: 16 August 2017

If the cable is within 50mm from the surface of the partition on the reverse side it requires mechanical protection. If it's an NYMJ I think it would be fine, a t+e cable with a bare integral earth is unacceptable.
 11 September 2017 05:27 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: dustydazzler

Mate asked me round to help pull up some old laminate flooring and take off shirting

I know new build wiring is rough as a BADgers , but this is taking the biscuit.

Thoughts ?


As you are such close friends, did you recommend any emergency remedial repairs be carried out as it was so rough?

-------------------------
:beer)
 11 September 2017 05:47 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: dustydazzler

Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: dustydazzler

To our surprise all the ring main cables for the sockets are loose laid (no capping or conduit) and run behind the skirting boards. I know this is a breach of the safety wiring zones.



Which of the wiring safety zones are breached?


They aren't in the traditional safe zones that one would expect if you look at the picture of the old zone illustration diagram ?


The cables don't sound like they are concealed in a wall, they are concealed behind a skirting board.

Here's a related topic:

http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...205&threadid=%2056376



-------------------------
:beer)
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Cables behind skirting boards

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