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Topic Title: Under floor Junction Boxes
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Created On: 30 August 2017 10:29 PM
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 30 August 2017 10:29 PM
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AncientMariner

Posts: 700
Joined: 14 December 2004

As an investment(?), purchased the house next door. This is the same one as with the ADE Accenta panel problem. http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...tid=205&threadid=49567

Looking beneath upstairs floorboards to locate where the alarm installer had commoned the individual PIR cabling - the ADE Accenta Ideal uses a "biscuit" at each sensor to identify to the CU which sensor(s) has alarmed, I found the commoning terminal strip, but also found a couple of junction boxes.

These two junction boxes, both MK 30 A, appear to have been fitted so as to extend the ringmain - in each case one cable is Black + Red and the other Blue + Brown. This type have three brass blocks with 4 holes and single screw for each hole. Screws not as tight as I would like.

So what is the best way forward? One JB due reasonable cable lengths, can likely be replaced by a new socket on the landing; but for the other?

The floor will be carpeted, so don't really want this type of JB hidden away beneath.

I was considering of 221 Wago connectors within a Wago Box, but according to the Q&As at Screwfix, http://www.screwfix.com/p/wagobox-junction-box/7355f this combination is "currently not for Maintenance free applications (in-assessable [sic] areas).

Alternatively crimps or soldering & heat shrink sleeve.

Also, for small quantities of Wagos, are there any "safe" sellers on eBay? I guess that there are fake Wagos in existence.

Clive




The easiest would be Wagos

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Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET MITP
 30 August 2017 10:46 PM
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leckie

Posts: 4263
Joined: 21 November 2008

Hmm, that's confusing. The same Q&A says the boxes with the connectors are MF. Look at the answer about two answers down. Perhaps is the model of connector? Maybe use the others types.
 30 August 2017 11:28 PM
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geov

Posts: 386
Joined: 22 February 2004

What about the Ashley J803, it's maintenance free?
 31 August 2017 09:07 AM
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CMK3PD

Posts: 62
Joined: 23 September 2016

You can get small (10pc's) qty's from TLC. I would go to them before an Ebay seller. You may pay a little more, but they should be genuine. Currently the 3pole 10 pack is £3.12. I imagine delivery is extra unless you have a local branch
 31 August 2017 09:31 AM
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WiredScience

Posts: 316
Joined: 25 January 2012

My preference would be for the J803s, but FYI cpc.co.uk sell individual Wagos as i discovered when I tried to order recently some and forgot to update the default quantity from 1! (no connection with them other than as a customer).
 31 August 2017 09:48 AM
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Zoomup

Posts: 3206
Joined: 20 February 2014

"These two junction boxes, both MK 30 A, appear to have been fitted so as to extend the ringmain - in each case one cable is Black + Red and the other Blue + Brown. This type have three brass blocks with 4 holes and single screw for each hole. Screws not as tight as I would like."

I have installed hundreds of these type of circular junction boxes under floors over the years, where traps are provided and screwed back down after installation. I have seen thousands of these junction boxes installed under floors. They are very reliable and will not catch fire. The big brass terminals are very reliable. If the junction box is screwed to a joist and the cables are clipped either side of the junction box then there is really nothing to worry about. I consider it a permanent joint.

Probably the old brown circular junction boxes are more reliable than modern "maintenance free" types. What maintenance is required on a junction box? Do we regularly "maintain" wiring accessories like switches and sockets to check terminal tightness? I think not. Some people call junction boxes joint boxes, but you know what I mean I am sure.

Z.
 31 August 2017 11:28 AM
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mapj1

Posts: 9258
Joined: 22 July 2004

The risk of the old style boxes is low - the bigger query is what is counted as 'accessible' as with a hammer through the ceiling, most things are...
221s can be used as MF, but strictly should be treated as de-rated from 32A to 20 I think.
wago themselves say


As with its predecessor, the 221 Series provides maintenance-free connections.

By which i think it means 'like the 222' whose metal innards are essentially the same but a longer plastic lever and tunnel block - assuming they do, then the same de-ratings.
wagobox data, with de-rating table, for things including the '222'

there are better choices for a ring 773-173 comes to mind
- after all it is 'MF' you are supposed to never want or need to undo it.

you could do worse than ask Wago UK
ukmarketing@wago.com
I have found them helpful many times, usually a day or two for harder queries, as they call back to Germany.

-------------------------
regards Mike


Edited: 31 August 2017 at 11:38 AM by mapj1
 31 August 2017 11:49 AM
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pww235

Posts: 172
Joined: 03 April 2014

Hager do an MF junction box with push fit terminals; quite nice and well built but pretty bulky. Might be worth a look though.
 31 August 2017 06:41 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 3842
Joined: 09 September 2005

I was thinking the same as Z before i read his post. There are millions of them about without problem.There are probably a load more under your floors. I like the wago's and use them in a patrace with a blank plate. They only stipulate their boxes so that they cab sell them at an extortionate price.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 31 August 2017 07:09 PM
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Legh

Posts: 4021
Joined: 17 December 2004

IMO, I would bring all four cables (both sides of the ring) out to a DSSO, and fit a deep (45mm) backing box. Install one side of the ring with WAGOs behind the socket outlet. That's if there is enough cable to pull through otherwise I might consider Z's suggestion and cut a trap in the floor somewhere out of the way where the carpet could be lifted.

Legh

-------------------------

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

de-avatared
 13 September 2017 10:40 PM
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AncientMariner

Posts: 700
Joined: 14 December 2004

I am still debating with myself the best way ahead here.

Clive

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Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET MITP
 13 September 2017 11:14 PM
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KFH

Posts: 516
Joined: 06 November 2010

I must admit to having installed lots of the old round junction boxes under floors without problems and found many more of them again without any problems. However I now fit either either the Wago boxes with the larger connectors that are derated to about 30A or the Ashley MF boxes again without any problems if I need to stuff something under the floor.
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