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Topic Title: Grenfell Tower electrical problems.
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Created On: 18 July 2017 03:41 PM
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 18 July 2017 03:41 PM
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Zoomup

Posts: 3438
Joined: 20 February 2014

A link from the Beeb. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40632705

Z.
 18 July 2017 05:59 PM
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Parsley

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The media need to let the professionals carry out the investigation.
Stories like this aren't helpful at all, I said at the start that the media need to stop scaremongering.
I see the IET have mentioned in their latest members news that their experts were interviewed by the media organisations following the fire.I listened to Mark Coles interview on 5 live, I'm not sure what I expected really. From memory the fridge and Electrical Safety First got the most attention. I felt the IET missed an opportunity to reassure the public that electrical designers and contractors are highly skilled professionals and are just as important as architects in providing safe buildings, if normal procedures are followed by all parties including the users.

Too many tick boxes certificates, D&B contracts and not enough physical checking of the installation is to blame.
The BCOs job must be very difficult, but most I've met don't really seem to spend much time on site.
When was the last time you saw a client's COW on site? Excluding the very specialist areas that some forum members work in.

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 18 July 2017 06:43 PM
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mapj1

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client's COW - it was a dairy farm I think ...

-------------------------
regards Mike
 18 July 2017 07:21 PM
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Fm

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I'm on site daily with my projects issuing lists to the contractor on a daily basis.
Not changes, just highlighting poor workmanship on all trades, plus H&S checks.
 18 July 2017 09:22 PM
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alancapon

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I agree, stories like this are unhelpful. The groups quoted are quite correct not commenting - the best option is to let the proper investigation proceed, and the correct answers will come out at the end. Most media will just make up what they don't know, and posting links to such rubbish is also unhelpful on a public forum in my opinion.

Regards,

Alan.
 18 July 2017 10:50 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 3875
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Lets hope it doesn't take 30 years for the truth to come out.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 18 July 2017 11:09 PM
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AJJewsbury

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The outcome might be interesting though. The symptoms sound like a classic broken supply N - which really isn't all all like conventional "spikes" or "surges" that keep being talked about. I think one of the residents' blogs said that SPDs had been installed to mitigate the problem - which is a good demonstration of the problems that using the wrong terminology can bring.

We keep hearing of increasing about the unreliability of supply CNE conductors (and the proposed fix of an additional earth electrode) - but if such events can also result in an increased risk of fire, perhaps we should be thinking more generally about the problem. Maybe a voltage monitoring relay & contactor to disconnect the installation from the supply when the voltage went out of range would address both problems.

- Andy.
 18 July 2017 11:12 PM
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Legh

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and the correct answers will come out at the end.


and

Lets hope it doesn't take 30 years for the truth to come out.


Yes, the powers that be would be wise to move fast and decisive.

Legh

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 18 July 2017 11:34 PM
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Legh

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Andy, Its heart breaking to think that PME is a failed system, only because it has been poorly maintained either by negligence or by incompetence, its a bloody tragedy for manufacturing technology, installation methods, risk assessment methodology and fire prevention.
However, with the scale of catastrophe other factors at different times of the destruction come into play which need to be taken into account, whereby the proper authorities will investigate.

Legh

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http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

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 18 July 2017 11:49 PM
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Parsley

Posts: 1353
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Originally posted by: mapj1

client's COW - it was a dairy farm I think [IMG][/IMG]...


Sorry MIke CoW


FM, I also carry out SHE engagements with our inhouse labour and subbies and issue defect sheets where necessary, but my point was that a lot of main contractors and clients no longer employ a CoW or technical authority directly choosing to employ a consultant who visits site once a month and doesn't really see what is getting installed until its too late and ceilings are already up and pressure to meet deadlines etc commissioning programmes compressed and so on.

Regards
 19 July 2017 10:47 AM
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John Peckham

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It would appear that these possible causes of over voltage were investigated.

No doubt the competent persons who carried out the investigation would have documented their findings and these documents would be made available to the Police and the public enquiry for scrutiny.

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 19 July 2017 10:42 PM
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Parsley

Posts: 1353
Joined: 04 November 2004

I expect Grenfell is supplied by dedicated transformers, they may or nay not be owned by the DNO. The rising mains submains etc would have probably been originally installed and maintained by the REC, but would now be owned and maintained by a BNO. They should be TNS if recently upgraded but could be CEN. Whether the make up of the distribution earthing had any influence on the fridge fire is unknown at this stage.

Hopefully some lessons will be learnt.

Regards
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