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Topic Title: 18th EDITION DPC
Topic Summary: NOW LIVE
Created On: 02 June 2017 10:55 PM
Status: Read Only
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 04 June 2017 10:30 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9365
Joined: 22 July 2004

That given the information needed, a copy of the regs and a calculator you can come up with the right answer. That sounds simple, but doesn't always turn out to be. Andy B


I would agree and on that basis I'd be in favour of a searchable electronic or paper copy being treated as equivalent. It is more about the knowing what to do with the info that is key, not how much you remember or how you look it up.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 04 June 2017 10:43 PM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 9953
Joined: 18 January 2003

Originally posted by: dustydazzler

Guide to good installation practices ?



A building regulations compliance guide, similar to the domestic ventilation guide issued by the Department of Community and Local Government (DCLG) previously the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister.

Andy B
 05 June 2017 10:03 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 15838
Joined: 13 August 2003

I thought it already was harmonised to IEC 60364 Andy, except for the .100 regs which would be to EN (IEC) 60364, & the .200 regs, BS7671 specific.

I suspect the current version is still a little way off - I know the they adopt .200 numbering for new and revised UK requirements, but I suspect there's still a lot of inherited UK specific stuff in there - like section 533 referring to UK-only standards for fuses, regulation 553.1.3 calling for BS 1363 13A sockets, let alone the 1.0mm2 for lighting circuits in reg 524.1/table 52.3 (I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe have a flat 1.5mm2 minimum).


It would appear we will have to wait until MondaY.

seems we're still waiting, still BSI have acknowledged the problem at least...

Update: 5 June 2017

Apologies - due to technical issues the draft of BS 7671 is not yet available for comment on this site. We are working to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Please check back for an update later today.


- Andy.
 05 June 2017 10:14 AM
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davezawadi

Posts: 3846
Joined: 26 June 2002

If electronically searchable, I could write a programme to make my computer pass by itself, does that make it an electrician? Then everyone would pass!

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 05 June 2017 11:17 AM
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lyledunn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 13 August 2003

Every one does pass anyway David, well at least the vast majority. One hundred courses under my belt with at least six in each course means over 600 candidates. Of those, only two failed! As the tutor, I accept no responsibility for failure and no acclaim for passing. I am just a guide who tries to make the passage through the course a worthwhile and, indeed, as enjoyable an experience as possible, given the rather dry subject matter.
I suspect that the industry doyens see no particular concerns with course content, structure or the pass criteria. There is a tidy wee sum to be made, why upset the apple cart? The boy in me inevitably splits metaphors and likes poking hornets nests with a long, pointed stick!

-------------------------
Regards,

Lyle Dunn
 05 June 2017 03:00 PM
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davezawadi

Posts: 3846
Joined: 26 June 2002

I know the pass rate Lyle, and how much use the guys who pass often are.... However I can name many other "exams" which can be passed far too easily too, but then educational standards are "politics" now, and no one is allowed to fail, or in many cases even compared as it is some kind of "prejudice" if everyone does not succeed. I notice that dear Jeremy is promising to remove all the good schools (sometimes labelled Grammar or Independent) if elected, as they show the others up, a dive to the bottom which has been going on since I was at school. As if politicians hadn't learned the lesson, oh no they didn't have too, they passed anyway! It's all about extracting maximum money now as you say, nothing needs to be provided in return, I'm still waiting for students to sue Universities for failure to teach useful stuff, or anything much really for £9k / year. One can but hope. Even degrees have become no measure of the candidate in a job interview, they often cannot describe their own final year project, so how much good would they be doing a project of mine? A self taught guy who has struggled is so much better as he can at least think and understand what it is all about, without continuous complaint that the work is too hard! A serious result of our "victim" society, where life must be "fair" and "equal", which of course can never be possible because "s**t" happens without fear or favour.

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 05 June 2017 04:06 PM
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marclambert

Posts: 329
Joined: 23 June 2010

Yes David
see my post reference the new 2391 and how "hard" it's going to be in future. Open book, maybe? Multiple choice, maybe? But both??
regards
Marc
 05 June 2017 05:39 PM
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davezawadi

Posts: 3846
Joined: 26 June 2002

Marc: Really this is going to be disastrous too. Open book, well perhaps. Multiple choice - no way. Inspection is all about forming opinions about possibilities. How are you going to make those multiple choice! You only need to look at inspection threads here to see that there are as many opinions as problems.

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 05 June 2017 06:24 PM
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John Peckham

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If you follow my link on the OP and register you can now view the 18th Edition Draft.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 05 June 2017 06:27 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Now available but Looks like only BSI members can view it

-------------------------
:beer)
 05 June 2017 06:39 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 1285
Joined: 12 February 2003

Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Now available but Looks like only BSI members can view it
 05 June 2017 06:40 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 1285
Joined: 12 February 2003

Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Now available but Looks like only BSI members can view it


Not quite, if you create an account you can register and view, but, beware it's a bit clunky and slow!
 05 June 2017 06:45 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 1285
Joined: 12 February 2003

Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

I thought it already was harmonised to IEC 60364 Andy, except for the .100 regs which would be to EN (IEC) 60364, & the .200 regs, BS7671 specific.


I suspect the current version is still a little way off - I know the they adopt .200 numbering for new and revised UK requirements, but I suspect there's still a lot of inherited UK specific stuff in there - like section 533 referring to UK-only standards for fuses, regulation 553.1.3 calling for BS 1363 13A sockets, let alone the 1.0mm2 for lighting circuits in reg 524.1/table 52.3 (I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe have a flat 1.5mm2 minimum).
...



- Andy.


Hi Andy,
I think that this explains that scenario:
"Numbering system The 17th edition introduced a new IEC decimal point numbering system to make it easier to embody future changes and additions resulting from ongoing international standards work within IEC and CENELEC. In order to accommodate future IEC changes it was decided to have a 100 numbering system for UK-only regulations. For the third amendment where 100 and 200 numbers have been used, the 100 numbers represent CENELEC Harmonization Document reference numbers and 200 numbers represent UK-only regulations. Existing regulations have not been "updated" to indicate 100 and 200 numbers, that will only be done when those regulations require a significant rewrite. This means for example, the former Regulation 422.3.100 is now Regulation 422.3.201 etc."
 05 June 2017 07:06 PM
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davezawadi

Posts: 3846
Joined: 26 June 2002

It does work a bit. Only 5 mins and I found that one cannot scroll whilst making a comment, it looses what has been written. Take care!

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 05 June 2017 07:15 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: paulskyrme

Originally posted by: weirdbeard



Now available but Looks like only BSI members can view it [IMG][/IMG]




Not quite, if you create an account you can register and view, but, beware it's a bit clunky and slow!


I preferred the old method of comments being ignored where the DPC was available on this site without having to log in to a different site to discuss it.

-------------------------
:beer)
 06 June 2017 01:45 AM
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mapj1

Posts: 9365
Joined: 22 July 2004

542.1.201 will be interesting for those whose in-take position is upstairs, as I read it, adds an electrode to PME.
"to prevent dangerous touch voltage"
When I have mastered the comments I will be asking how low an impedance the committee considers is needed to achieve this laudable aim on a pme house, and what maximum connected load should be assumed during fault conditions. to stay below 50V and support a 1 bar electric fire requires an impedance hard to get round here, while I fear a 3kw kettle will be a non-starter for anyone not living in a salt marsh.
More to follow I think.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 06 June 2017 08:32 AM
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dp11

Posts: 96
Joined: 18 June 2011

If I read it correctly 10m caravan hookup cables are banned .
 06 June 2017 10:37 AM
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whjohnson

Posts: 934
Joined: 24 January 2009

So can we ask - how many fatalities have resulted from 10m long caravan hook up leads?

How many fatalities have resulted from not having an earth electrode inserted somewhere upstairs in a dwelling with an existing PME supply?

Is this one last headlong rush to adopt the absurd before we finally BREXIT and are able to begin repealing such nonsense requirements?

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 06 June 2017 10:59 AM
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lyledunn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 13 August 2003

You are dead right Paul, "clunky" is an apt word albeit not the word that I would use which would likely be deleted! I would like to make myself familiar and perhaps to comment but life is too short to wade through this treacle! I have logged in, read through at snails pace on my new state of the art computer only to be dumped out on a whim! If this is the best they can do I despair!
By the way, I have noted several errors in the text but I will let someone with more patience find them!


-------------------------
Regards,

Lyle Dunn
 06 June 2017 12:10 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 6881
Joined: 27 December 2005

I agree. At the pedestrian way you have to work through the document it will take until the closing date to get to the end for the first time! Last time I printed the draft out, but there doesn't seem to be any way of doing that now.

Regards,

Alan.

Edit: I have also made my views known to via the "contact us on line" facility on the bsi standards web portal. I will let you know if I get a reply!

Edited: 06 June 2017 at 12:31 PM by alancapon
IET » Wiring and the regulations » 18th EDITION DPC

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