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Topic Title: 18th EDITION DPC
Topic Summary: NOW LIVE
Created On: 02 June 2017 10:55 PM
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 02 June 2017 10:55 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 8793
Joined: 23 April 2005

It would appear we will have to wait until MondaY.
BSI

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/

Edited: 05 June 2017 at 06:25 PM by John Peckham
 03 June 2017 09:32 AM
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lyledunn

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I have delivered over 100 three-day courses on the 17th so far and even this late on in the edition, we are still able to populate a monthly class with at least six candidates. The expectation of the syllabus is that the candidate understands the requirements of each Part, which is a rather naive consideration given that many of the candidates have never opened the front cover of the document.
Nevertheless, I do try to make the wee course as worthwhile as possible but there is no chance, given the time constraints, that I can deliver even a minimal synopsis of all of the issues presented in the document.
I have had to prune the syllabus requirements and concentrate on what I feel are key considerations that would be more commonly broached by electricians in the workplace. That way,at least, candidates will have a better grasp of key concepts. Let's face it, many of the questions pitched in the exam are mindless and once one understands the mechanisms employed to retrieve information from the document, ones competence as an electrician is superfluous.
I would have hoped that the impending issue of the 18th Edition would present an opportunity to revisit the rationale and structure of the existing course, including the ridiculous situation that permits only hard copies of the document in the exam room.
However, I doubt that change will be anything other than slow given the money being made on the present set-up, but one lives in hope!

-------------------------
Regards,

Lyle Dunn
 03 June 2017 11:09 AM
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davezawadi

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The reason why you cannot use an electronic BS7671 is that it is fully searchable by the computer in no time at all, so even the dimmest candidate could easily pass if he could work a computer! It is good to hear that you attempt to teach the basics, rather than just how to pass the exam, at least there is a chance for your class to learn something useful.

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 03 June 2017 11:29 AM
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briggsy6

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Most 'electricians' will only ever have a hazy grasp of the actual requirements, relying on hearsay and handed down lore.

And while we're on the topic of having a clue, how come there isn't a requirement for them to understand the content of the Electricity at Work Regulations?
 03 June 2017 04:03 PM
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lyledunn

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Originally posted by: davezawadi

The reason why you cannot use an electronic BS7671 is that it is fully searchable by the computer in no time at all, so even the dimmest candidate could easily pass if he could work a computer! I.


That is true David, but it will have to be considered that many folk will increasingly use electronic devices instead of traditional books in their every day lives. Hence my suggestion that this is one good reason for a review and the impending issue of the 18th would seem to give an appropriate opportunity.


-------------------------
Regards,

Lyle Dunn
 03 June 2017 05:31 PM
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alanblaby

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Briggsy - nice to see you back here!

As for the 'dimmest passing' , isnt that what happens now?
When I did mine, it was rumoured to be a 60% pass mark, so really, anyone with a slight clue could guess at many of the answers and still pass - 2 of the answers are usually clearly wrong, so that increases anyone's chances of passing quite a lot if you can discount 2 of the 4 multiple choices.
 03 June 2017 06:25 PM
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Legh

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Well this time we've only got 2 months to review and make our comments .
Sounds like the whole process is being rushed through for some reason.

Legh

-------------------------

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

de-avatared
 03 June 2017 06:41 PM
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spinlondon

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I don't think it's a matter of being rushed through.
More like restricting the number of comments that they will have to ignore.
 03 June 2017 06:48 PM
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geoffsd

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Originally posted by: alanblaby
so really, anyone with a slight clue could guess at many of the answers and still pass - 2 of the answers are usually clearly wrong, so that increases anyone's chances of passing quite a lot if you can discount 2 of the 4 multiple choices.

Doesn't it require a fair knowledge to even know that?


Give the BYB to someone who knows nothing and ask them to find the max. Zs for a C32 60898 and see how long it takes them.

Or they could just work it out.
 03 June 2017 10:30 PM
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mapj1

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I'd rather folk had an intuition feel or wet finger estimation method for roughly what it should be - C type anything , times ten, so 320A on 230V - about 0.7 ohms so if you measure less than 0.5 ohms, its a clear pass, if more like 1.0 its a clear fail, and relies on RCD, and only for readings that fall in between it is probably worth looking it up.
Having no feel for what is a sensible or silly answer and being blindly dependant on the tables greatly increases the risk of using the figures from the wrong column and not realising.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 04 June 2017 11:49 AM
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AJJewsbury

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There seem to be a lot of references to BS EN 60364 on the JPEL/64 page http://standardsdevelopment.bs...om/committees/50001574 - is full harmonization of BS 7671 to BS EN 60364 on the cards?
- Andy.
 04 June 2017 04:34 PM
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sparkingchip

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Well, since theIET did away with the index of the index in BS7671, it has obviously become more difficult to pass the exam.

However, when I did the 17th update course the lecturer said " you'll pass this exam easily if you are quick at looking things up in the Argos catalogue", but the youth of today don't look things up in the catalogue, they use the app or website, so are at a disadvantage not being allowed to use a phone or tablet in the exam room.

I did a water regs course and exam, after each question in the exam was the page and paragraph number to look at for the answer, now that really is the way forward to ensure equality and no one is disadvantaged by having to look things up in a book.

Andy B
 04 June 2017 05:46 PM
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mapj1

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well, it depends what skill you want to test - knowing who to ask or where to look is probably as good as knowing how to fly the search engine - both are rather like being able to read sheet music as opposed to play...

-------------------------
regards Mike
 04 June 2017 07:55 PM
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paulskyrme

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

There seem to be a lot of references to BS EN 60364 on the JPEL/64 page http://standardsdevelopment.bs...om/committees/50001574 - is full harmonization of BS 7671 to BS EN 60364 on the cards?

- Andy.


I thought it already was harmonised to IEC 60364 Andy, except for the .100 regs which would be to EN (IEC) 60364, & the .200 regs, BS7671 specific.
 04 June 2017 08:48 PM
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briggsy6

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Been busy.
 04 June 2017 09:19 PM
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sparkingchip

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What has happened to he long awaited domestic electrical installation compliance guide we are apparently going to have to guide us through our working day?

Andy B
 04 June 2017 09:49 PM
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John Peckham

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Andy

Where did you hear about or see that?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 04 June 2017 10:00 PM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 10180
Joined: 18 January 2003

Originally posted by: mapj1

well, it depends what skill you want to test - knowing who to ask or where to look is probably as good as knowing how to fly the search engine - both are rather like being able to read sheet music as opposed to play...



That given the information needed, a copy of the regs and a calculator you can come up with the right answer.

That sounds simple, but doesn't always turn out to be.

Andy B
 04 June 2017 10:08 PM
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sparkingchip

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

Andy



Where did you hear about or see that?



Halfway through this Discussion it gets a mention, as it has in others.

Andy B
 04 June 2017 10:22 PM
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dustydazzler

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Joined: 19 January 2016

Guide to good installation practices ?
IET » Wiring and the regulations » 18th EDITION DPC

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