What is the difference between the two degrees?
That is what I have found:
What is the difference between a BEng Engineering and a BSc Engineering?
The BEng (Bachelor of Engineering) is a specialist degree usually leading to accreditation from professional bodies. The BSc Engineering follows a broader curriculum and is not recognised by professional bodies.

Has anybody got anything to add?

I'll concur with Alan here

At my University the BSc used to be the consolation prize for those who fell off the MEng and BEng courses due to not meeting the grade in the final two years.
(I think that this was done such that the faculty was not seen to be awarding non-honours degrees or fails, but that might be my cynicism)

But you can't just label all BSc's lower than a BEng.

As a side note: the Cambridge BA still seems to be accredited for CEng (with further learning).

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Mark Tickner CEng MIET

And there are a few IOFs who got BSc or BA because BEng and MEng hadn't been "invented" back in "ineteen-hundred and frozn to death". Oxbridge still award BAs which can be converted into MA. Way back, some universities offered BSc(Eng) before relabelling it BEng

Bottom line is to check if the Bx or Mx is accredited.

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Andy
EurIng Andrew Houston CEng FIET
PRA, PRI and Volunteer Career Manager Advisor

Almost all engineering degrees are BEng/MEng nowadays. Some degrees involving both science and engineering such as physics and electronics or computer science and electronics are BSc. The best thing to do is check that the degree is accredited if you want to become a member of a professional society.

NVQ level 5-HE degree


Query sent to the "Advisor- Directgov"


Q.Tell me please how is regarded the Graduateship in engineering,awarded by the C&G of London Institute at NVQ level 5. What the academic equivalent.
A.Generally an NVQ5 is classed as a higher degree level.

Going back a bit - when I graduated (UWIST 1982) we had a choice of BEng or BSc. The difference was that BSc included statistics and thermodynamics whilst we studied electrical systems and machines. Otherwise the courses were identical - semiconductor theory, materials science, microprocessors, the lot. But the BSc group did tend to consider themselves a bit above us who were merely considered electricians, so I did have a certain amount of smugness when the IEE recently didn't recognise the BSc but did the BEng! But it does all go to show how silly it could be.

Although I thought that nowadays BSc was three years and BEng four?

N.B. As an employer I don't care a jot, as long as the graduate a) knows something about the subject, b) doesn't think they know everything about the subject and is willing to find out more and c) can work in a team.

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Andy Millar CEng MIET MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Most of the BEng courses I know about are 3 years.

Integrated and acredited MEng courses are 4 years. These being the "exemplifying qualifications" for CEng. BTW. The IMechE requires students who undertake un-accredited integrated MEng courses to "top up" their academic quals by undertaking 2 "appropriate" MSc modules.

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Andy
EurIng Andrew Houston CEng FIET
PRA, PRI and Volunteer Career Manager Advisor

Yes, my mistake.

I notice at my local university that they target the BSc course at IEng, it appears the BEng is targeted at CEng given an MEng to-up.

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Andy Millar CEng MIET MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

YEs i aggreed with ur comment but how do u compare BEng with four year program BS engineering ? if somebody did BEng in electronics and other did BS electronics engineering. so are they both equal ? in qualification.

I'm not sure what you are asking since, IIRC for the UK, both a BSc (Batchelor of Science) and BEng (Batchelor of Engineering) are at "equivalent" levels. "BS" is a qualification that many of my colleagues from the US of A have.

The simple answer in doing any comparision of qualifications from different parts of the world or with different "titles" is to compare :-

Total Length of Course

Subjects Studied

Content and Level of Studied Subject

Time spent on each Subject

Practical work undertaken including Project work (eg Joint or Individual)

Method of assessment (examination or continuous)

Only then, can you assess if the BEng in Electronics is "equivalent" to BS in Electronic Engineering - assuming that you have first decided what you mean by "equivalent".

Example : An MA(Oxon) or MA(Cantab) is not directly equivalent to an MA or MSc studied and examined by another UK Universtity. The former are based on study and award at Batchelor nor Masters level + post grad experience.

As another example, I have a BSc obtained by part-time study and with HNC as an entry qualification. Admitted I obtained this "way back when men were made of iron and ships were made of wood" before "BEng" or "MEng" were thought of as qualification titles.

I studied during the first two years (as did all of my cohort) Mechanics, Physics, Maths, Electrical Principles (Including practical lab work on Electrical, Mechanics Physics and Measurement systems) + some "Engineer in Society", Planning, etc, studies

In the third year, IIRC, we all dropped Mechanics, Principles and Physics and all did Rotating Electrical Machines and Electronics (including Practical Lab work on both and some "programming of early computers") + retaining Maths and adding some "management skills" topics

In the fourth year, we chose a "speciality" from Lighting, Generation & Distribution, Electronics - and some areas I can't remember - and did our individual projects. IIRC, we dropped Maths and increased our Computing Skills.

We were examined at the end of each year and undertook a viva on our project.

Now I, by virtue of my BSc qualification with specialty in Electronics and my employment, classed myself as an Electronic Engineer - but I have a qualification entitled "Batchelor of Science in Electrical Engineering". IMHO, my formal academic qualifications are broader than modern "Electronic Engineering" and not as deep - especially given the massive change in Electronics over the past 30+ years - valves to ????. However, my competencies gained by a combination of initial academic qualification, work experience and CPD are still, IMHO, adequate to warrant continued registration as a "CEng".

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Andy
EurIng Andrew Houston CEng FIET
PRA, PRI and Volunteer Career Manager Advisor

Plymouth University show BEng as a route to CEng and BSc as a route to IEng. Make of that what you will. http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/file...%20brochure%202003.pdf

As I mentioned above, as an employer I don't care which you've got! It's all too subtle for me.

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Andy Millar CEng MIET MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Actually they're both routes to CEng since an applicant can "top-up" to the exemplifying level of 4-year MEng.

As I said in my previous contribution, you'd need to look at the content and duration of the BEng. Maybe it's the same as other universities call their MEng whereas the BSc isn't.

I have to agree with you that as far as emplyment is concerned it's competency to do the job over post-nominals any day. However, degrees, post-nominals and professional memberships are usually a good indicator of competence - at least for "first order selection".

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Andy
EurIng Andrew Houston CEng FIET
PRA, PRI and Volunteer Career Manager Advisor

I'm just about to complete my B.Sc on Civil Engineering, and was just surfing for other peoples' take on the issue.
From what my lecturers have told me and from what I have discovered:

Accredited MEng for Chartered Engineer Status
Accredited BEng (Hons) for Chartered Engineer Status
Accredited BEng for Incorporated Engineer Status
Accredited BSc for Incorporated Engineer Status

However, Further learning to MSc or through the technical report or mature route will still see you gain CEng if you so wish.

You can even get there with an HND or HNC

Not sure how it works in other engineering disciplines but that's the story in Civils and structures.

Should probably add that I've been applying for jobs over the last month or so, and while I've now been offered three graduate positions, which I am very pleased about most of the larger civil engineering consultancies, and some of the contractors, will not consider applicants who have not got a BEng.

Personally, I think the BEng appears to open more doors, but the BSc is still a very worthy degree.

It may be an over simplification on the part of your lecturers - or something specific within your "seat of learning" vis a vis BSc vs BEng - but the EC-uk exemplifying qualification for CEng is:-

An accredited 3-year Bachelors Degree with honours in Engineering or Technology + either an appropriate Masters Degree or appropriate further learning to Masters level (aka a "Top-up") OR an accredited 4-year MEng degree

My words in Italics. In other words BSc(Hons) or BEng(Hons) or BA(Hons)without "appropriate further learning" is NOT adequate.

For IEng it's :-
An accredited Bachelors degree in Engineering or Technology OR an HND / Foundation Degree plus further learning to degree level (aka a "Top up")

For EngTech it's :-
A National Certificate / Diploma in Engineering or Construction & the Built Environment OR equivalent - including a technical certificate as part of an approved Advanced Modern Apprenticeship, an approved Level 3 NVQ/SVQ, a C&G Higher Professional Diploma in Engineering or similar.

You will (or should) note that there is no distinction given of a Batchelors Degree between BEng or BSc or BA - just that it must be accredited. As has been said before in these fora, it's not the title of the degree that is required but the content. Some universities don't offer BEng(Hons), but it's a dead cert that their BA(Hons) in Engineering is accredited. Similarly, an MA or MSc does not always equate to the required "top-up" unless "appropriate".

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Andy
EurIng Andrew Houston CEng FIET
PRA, PRI and Volunteer Career Manager Advisor

Just my 2 cents worth.

Aren't all these different University degree courses just a big con?

I mean there are only a limited number of lecturers teaching those engineering subjects at undergraduate level at any one University.

The same lecturers who teach their subjects at BEng and MEng level also teach them on BSc(Hons) courses. The contents are the same even if the subject titles are slightly different (Electronic principals v Electronic Systems Eng). It's taught with the same set of notes in the same classrooms on the same black (or white) board. Even the recommended text books are the same. At the end of the day the students receive the same education.

When I did my EC pt 2 course, subjects were called, Electronic Eng, Communications Eng etc. This was in the days when the EC made claim their qualification was on par with BSc(Hons)

But when BEng(Hons) arrived on the scene, the EC updated their subject titles to justify their qualification being on par with BEng(Hons). So now it was Electronic Systems Eng and Communications Systems Eng etc. But looking at the syllabus between the old and new subjects they were practically identical. The change in subject titles seemed purely cosmetic.

I must say that having such different degree titles (BSc, BEng, BA,) to emphasis differences which don't really exists, to show which ones lead to CEng and which lead to IEng is just over the top cosmetic overlay and lead to downgrading of our status in society because they are confusing to the students, the public and surprise surprise to ourselves as these discussions demonstrate.

And onto the subject of accreditation. Why is it that the same academics wearing their University hats on create degree courses, spending £millions of tax payers money to produce on prospectus and other advertising material to announce to the world their engineering courses are WORLD CLASS.

Something along the lines of "STOP! Don't go to Harward or MIT or whatever other University for your degree. Come to the UK and study at XYZ University and get a WORLD CLASS engineering education etc." My University (where I work) has a pamphlet that claims, amongst other things, to have 19 Nobel prize winners. Just the thing to catch those fishs.

Then when those poor punters do come over here to get that supposedly WORLD CLASS engineering education, the same academics with their IET, ECUK and ETB hats on now play a different tune and say something like,

"Oh no old chap this degree of yours most certainly won't get you accredited with the IET or even get you CEng status. You'll have to study further towards xy or z degree before we even think of deciding to accept your qualification."

I have a great deal of difficulty in trying not to think that somewhere along the line this Institution together with the rest of the bunch (ECUK, ETB) have made many people over the years, who simply want to obtain a professional engineering qualification, into WORLD CLASS MUGS. Something even the worlds greatest con artists haven't matched.

Unfortunately, some of us have only ourselves to blame since we continue to pay those subscriptions.

Oh deary me, I seem to have over done it again..... You'll have to forgive me. I suppose it must be down to my inferior College education, where I was taught to recognise a spade a spade.

OK, seems my previous post wasn't quite accurate. As I wanted to get to the bottom of this topic here's what it says in the New Civil Engineer's careers brochure for 2006.

As I said it may vary in other disciplines but not by much I'll bet...

Here are the EXACT routes:

If you get an MEng:
Stage 1: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on engineering principles.
Stage 2: Either (a) Technical Report Route (TRR) - includes Academic Review and Chartered Professional Review (CPR) or (b) CPR.
Stage 3: Award of Member of the Institution of Civil Engineers (MICE) and Chartered Civil Engineer (Option to register as CEng).

If you get a BEng (Hons):
Stage 1: Further Learning (Possibly MSc)
Stage 2: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on engineering principles.
Stage 3: Either (a) Technical Report Route (TRR) - includes Academic Review and Chartered Professional Review (CPR) or (b) CPR.
Stage 4: Award of Member of the Institution of Civil Engineers (MICE) and Chartered Civil Engineer (Option to register as CEng).

If you get BEng or BSc:
Stage 1: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on engineering principles.
Stage 2: Either (a) Member Professional Review (MPR) or (b) Technical Report Route (TRR) - includes Academic Review and MPR.
Stage 3: Award of MICE (Option to register as IEng).
Stage 4: (With further learning [progressive route]) CPR.
Stage 5: Award of MICE and Chartered Civil Engineer (Option to register as CEng).

If you get an HND or HNC:
Stage 1: Further Learning (Possibly BSc)
Stage 2: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on engineering principles.
Stage 3: Either (a) Member Professional Review (MPR) or (b) Technical Report Route (TRR) - includes Academic Review and MPR.
Stage 4: Award of MICE (Option to register as IEng).
Stage 5: (With further learning [progressive route]) CPR.
Stage 6: Award of MICE and Chartered Civil Engineer (Option to register as CEng).

Any other UK Bachelors Degree
Stage 1: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on engineering principles.
Stage 2: Member Professional Review
Stage 3: MICE Awarded
Or:
Stage 1: Initial Professional Development (IPD) based on scientific principles.
Stage 2: Associate Member Professional Review (AMPR)
Stage 3: AMICE Awarded

That's almost comprehensive although I have noticed a couple of omissions:

(a) It still doesn't show the route for my degree (BSc Hons)
(b) It doesn't even mention the BA in Engineering.

Off the topic slightly, I never even knew you could do a BA in Engineering. That seems like a bit of a contradiction in terms to me. I always thought that BA's being Bachelor of Arts, wouldn't venture into the sciences, and BSc's or BEng, being scientific, wouldn't venture into the arts.

Does that mean I could get a BSc in English Literature or Ancient History?

Here's what it says on the York University website:

What is the difference between BEng and BSc?
At York, the choice between a BEng and a BSc designation is made by each student prior to graduation. There is no difference in the programme content.

The advantage of choosing BEng is that it shows that the programme from which you have graduated has been partially accredited by a professional engineering institution.

Here, the designation BEng is available only for the Computer Science programme. Our Mathematics / Computer Science programme is not accredited by any professional engineering institution, and so its designation is always BSc.

From this I can assume that my (evidently partially) accredited BSc is as worthy as a BEng. Now someone tell that to the major consultants who specify a BEng!

Ronny,
I think the only place you can do a BA in Engineering is in Cambridge (previously also Oxford, but they've stopped the BA and now only do the MEng). I heard the Open Uni also does BA but am not sure about this.

The BA is really there for historic reasons. At one point, you could only ever study for a BA, probabaly because earliest universities concentrated on theology, philosophy, etc that one would today associate with the arts. The BSc was something invented by University of London. Over the years, universities around the world adopted the BA/BSc style of naming degrees, and the Cambridge/Oxford scientific degrees became unique instead of the norm. Regardless of what you study at Bachelors level in Oxford or Cambridge, everyone gets a BA degree. Of course, later on, the BEng emerged.

Sashi

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Dr S Sivathasan, DPhil CEng
PRI IPRA (Queensland)

As I said before. There is basically no difference.

Why have the two? Because academics (and this includes FULLY qualified, competent, professional Chartered Engineers as well) like a bit of variety to kill the boredom. It also amuses them to see us being confused as idiots and pay for the privilege of being made idiots of.