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Topic Title: Control Panel Horizontal Surface
Topic Summary: Regulations regards mounting of components on top surface.
Created On: 28 September 2017 03:16 PM
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - RobEWard - 28 September 2017 03:16 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - paulskyrme - 28 September 2017 05:33 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - AJJewsbury - 28 September 2017 06:39 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - Nedryerson - 28 September 2017 07:55 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - CMK3PD - 28 September 2017 09:18 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - Nedryerson - 28 September 2017 09:59 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - Nedryerson - 28 September 2017 10:01 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - mapj1 - 28 September 2017 09:23 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - mapj1 - 28 September 2017 11:14 PM  
 Control Panel Horizontal Surface   - Nedryerson - 29 September 2017 12:04 AM  
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 28 September 2017 03:16 PM
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RobEWard

Posts: 2
Joined: 30 October 2015

Hi,
I am currently working on a 3 phase electrical panel that has cooling fans mounted on the enclosure top surface.
Regulation 416.2.3 states that a horizontal surface must meet IP4x which is 1mm, however the fans do not meet this which could potentially allow water, dust and other foreign body ingress into the panel.
Are the fans exempt from this reg?
Where can I find if this is OK, considering this is an industrial panel and has been CE marked?
Thanks
 28 September 2017 05:33 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 1292
Joined: 12 February 2003

Is this a machinery control panel or a power distribution panel.
i.e. does it come under BS7671 or EN 60204-1?
 28 September 2017 06:39 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16118
Joined: 13 August 2003

If BS 7671 does apply (and I share Paul's suspicions that it might not - individual product standards often differ quite markedly from general BS 7671 principles), then I thought the requirement was IP4X or IPXXD - IPXXD is quite a different test which the fans may well pass - (e.g. a 100mm long 1mm dia probe not being able to touch live parts).
- Andy.
 28 September 2017 07:55 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Rob,

Control panels and switchgear are generally built to comply with BS EN 61439 (BS5486) which will trump BS7671 although certain aspects of BS767 will certainly apply.

Natural ventilation through the roof of the panel is not unusual but this is usually achieved via a 'top hat' arrangement backed with a 2.5mm dia mesh. This will result is a protection rating of IP31 which is more than adequate for indoor switchear

Do these fans ventilate the busbar chamber ? I do hope not. I really do hope not.

Ned
 28 September 2017 09:18 PM
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CMK3PD

Posts: 70
Joined: 23 September 2016

Under 61439 the minimum IP rating for indoor assemblies is 2X, but in honesty I would be uncomfortable with anything under 21, that at least stops falling objects going straight into the busbar system etc.

It does not sound like the manufacturer has fitted suitable fans. IF they are not 2X, then it's not compliant and is incorrectly CE marked. PM me if you want some third party inspection carried out.
 28 September 2017 09:59 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Yes, the standard states that the degree of protection should be AT LEAST IP2X and agreed, in this case IP2X would be unacceptable for a top, "mushroom: ventilator as described above.

IP31 would prevent accidental water ingress and 2.5mm mesh would not inhibit natural or forced ventilation.

Ned
 28 September 2017 10:01 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

I would still be interested to know if the fans are ventilating a busbar chamber.
 28 September 2017 09:23 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9716
Joined: 22 July 2004

Comng at it thre other way, when we have a hot running box, normally we put a mushroom or a baffle plate on the fan outlet in such cases, almost like a chimney cowl,
the lower profile way is a mesh/ perforated plate., if need be in louvres or a 'sawtooth' like the old factory roofs so as to not lose out on the clear area available for air flow.
If there are EMC concerns we will also have honeycomb
this sort of ideas

-------------------------
regards Mike
 28 September 2017 11:14 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9716
Joined: 22 July 2004

Sorry are you saying you don't like the mushrooms either ? Maybe we are at cross purposes , the sort of thing I am thinking off will not allow a straight wire of any length into the box, it would have to be bent to flex up and double back to go down.
Actually thinking further, for anything big and permanent live, the fans would normally be beneath, pushing up, and maybe in a separate plenum outside the box to allow fan and filter servicing without requiring opening of the main dangerous stuff . Holes in top and sides are then simple exit vents, and if PSSC is serious, then deep thought is also given to where a blast would go if it all went wrong, so that it is directed to do as little damage as possible.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 29 September 2017 12:04 AM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Sorry to give that impression.

I'm a big fan of the 'mushroom'. It served the industry well for years before the advent of the door mounted fan.

It's cheap, efficient, absorbs no energy and does not require filter changes which, is suspect, rarely happens.

Incidentally, I once had to quote for a power station panel with - wait for it - a protection rating of IP65 !
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