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Topic Title: zone advice please guys
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Created On: 24 July 2016 06:06 PM
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 24 July 2016 06:06 PM
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goldenboy1818

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Hi guys hope your all doing well. I came across a job in a bungalow the other day and just wanted to check something with you guys. In a kitchen which is being re done there are a number of surface cables in a bit of trunking. The developer wants these chased in but i said i cannot where its not in a zone, just randomly runs down the wall. However if i place a new double socket below this on the same vertical line can i chase those cables in as they will now technically be in a safety zone ? Thanks guys
 24 July 2016 06:23 PM
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74jools

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Seems fine to me, even a thru box with a blanking plate would suffice.

Regards
Julian
 24 July 2016 07:03 PM
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geoffsd

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May be better to go across within 150mm. of the ceiling and then down to the accessory.
 24 July 2016 07:08 PM
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AJJewsbury

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By the letter of the regs the cable should be connected to the accessory that providing the 'zone', rather than the accessory creating a zone that you can then any cables you like in - however the latter is the usual interpretation and doesn't seem any less safe to me than sticking to the letter of the regs. I'd be happy with what you propose.
- Andy.
 24 July 2016 07:09 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Or of course re-cable using BS 8436 cable and then bury them where-ever they want.
- Andy.
 24 July 2016 07:24 PM
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geoffsd

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

By the letter of the regs the cable should be connected to the accessory that providing the 'zone', rather than the accessory creating a zone that you can then any cables you like in

I would think it is intended to prevent danger from invisible cables, of which people might be unaware, even though in the same zone as connected cables.
 24 July 2016 08:55 PM
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aligarjon

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

By the letter of the regs the cable should be connected to the accessory that providing the 'zone', rather than the accessory creating a zone that you can then any cables you like in - however the latter is the usual interpretation and doesn't seem any less safe to me than sticking to the letter of the regs. I'd be happy with what you propose.

- Andy.




Where does it say that then Andy ?


Gary

-------------------------
Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 24 July 2016 10:01 PM
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geoffsd

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522.6.202(i)
 25 July 2016 10:40 AM
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3Wires

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

Or of course re-cable using BS 8436 cable and then bury them where-ever they want.

- Andy.


that's a reminder (to me at least!) that cables can be where one doesn't expect them to be. I always look out for accessories or blanking plates, but remember in an office once, there was a picture frame on the wall, no electrical accessories in sight, but the frame was there to basically hide the big warning behind it: "do not drill this wall - buried cables"
 25 July 2016 12:10 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Where does it say that then Andy ?

522.6.202(i)

Correct. After the bit about 150mm wide zones at the top and sides of a wall it goes on to say ... "Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically to the point accessory or switchgear."

- Andy.
 25 July 2016 01:10 PM
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aligarjon

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well that seems a bit pointless when you are permitted to run a cable down the wall the opposite side to the accessory ( different room ) . So using an accessory in one room to create a safe zone in another. I suspect the reg quoted is just poorly worded and your interpretation is not its intention ?


Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 25 July 2016 01:31 PM
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weirdbeard

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Where does it say that then Andy ?


522.6.202(i)


Correct. After the bit about 150mm wide zones at the top and sides of a wall it goes on to say ... "Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically to the point accessory or switchgear."



What's the definition of connected?


I would say if cables sharing a zone all go off when the main switch is switched off then they are connected?

-------------------------
:beer)
 25 July 2016 01:43 PM
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geoffsd

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connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or partition,
 25 July 2016 01:47 PM
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OMS

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I'd say it was a circuit associated with that accessory etc

Basically, it frowns upon say two legs of a ring connecting to a socket outlet with the immersion circuit "skirting" the accessory box. Te immersion circuit, generally would be "out of zone"

That's a pedants definition however - custom and practice (or the cutting edge of bad practice) shows something a little different (lots of people getting it wrong maybe)

Essentially, there are vertical and horizontal zones by default (corners etc) - other zones are only created by the "acccessories" for the circuits connected to those accessories

Regards

OMS

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Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 25 July 2016 02:52 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: OMS

I'd say it was a circuit associated with that accessory etc




Hi OMS, where did you get the circuit bit from, it just says connected in the regs?

-------------------------
:beer)
 25 July 2016 03:12 PM
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OMS

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I worked it out from the words - what do you think "connected" means in this context - cable, connected to, point, accessory or switchgear - are we talking about a circuit perhaps

It doesn't say that any old bit of cable that passes close to an accessory, does it - keep thinking "connected to"

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 25 July 2016 05:27 PM
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aligarjon

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Looks like the NIC need to rewrite pocket guide 6 that they send out. The fact that an accessory can indicate a safe zone for cable runs in a different room but not directly above it in the same room is ridiculous.


By definition we can't use a box and blank plate either then as there is no connection to the plate.


Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 25 July 2016 07:12 PM
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OMS

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Well, you can only draw your conclusions as I do mine

But I'm not sure the regs intended a blank plate to denote a zone

In terms of "on the reverse" well presumably for partitions less than circa 100mm thick

Regards

OMS

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Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 25 July 2016 09:01 PM
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goldenboy1818

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so a zone is created on the opposite side to the wall of an accessory ? i never work to that as seems crazy. In the case i have here the worry for me is there a group of cables running about 500mm down the wall in trunking then dissapear through the wall. By placing a socket below them im hoping potentially to be able to chase them in,.However if later down the line someone dropped the socket cover off to check for where cables run and see they run down from the socket, they make think its safe to drill above the socket. But obviously if my cables are in the wall above this will create a problem, dont know how else i can get round this, do you think its ok where its a different 'connected' circuit ??
 26 July 2016 06:30 PM
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goldenboy1818

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IET » Wiring and the regulations » zone advice please guys

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