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Topic Title: New Part P notifications after April
Topic Summary: Whats a 3rd party registered certifier?
Created On: 31 January 2013 09:16 PM
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 13 February 2014 10:59 AM
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Zoro

Posts: 300
Joined: 31 July 2011

Originally posted by: phantom9

Why is so much emphasis being placed on notification? Do the notices ever get checked? What are the LABC supposed to do with them?


The whole of Part P is based around Notifications, because if it was based around Competence,it would not be anywhere near as profitable.

You do not have to be Competent to be in a Competent person Scheme, as the Select Committee have discovered. Strange that the Schemes and their owners did not mention that during the previous 18 months of giving evidence.

The current grandfather rights given to those who think they have bought a badge of Competence from a Scheme, is just to cover up the misuse of entry requirements over the last nine years.

Many thought this was a quick but expensive route to becoming a Competent Electrician.

Unfortunately it only means you meet the entry requirements of a Scheme which means nothing in law, you wont see the Schemes for dust when it goes wrong.

Just like the public who complain to a Scheme about dangerous work, they quote from the small print which they have written themselves and walk away.
Others ask for large sums of money to even look at dangerous work, carried out by people on their register, another way to make complaints low.

When are DCLG going to tell their minister Stephen Williams the full truth?

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/M...r.aspx?meetingId=14670

.

Edited: 13 February 2014 at 11:08 AM by Zoro
 13 February 2014 03:06 PM
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napitprofessional

Posts: 452
Joined: 08 March 2008

When are DCLG going to tell their minister Stephen Williams SOME of the truth?

Perhaps Eric Pickles MP would like a briefing from his own Department - he can put it in the ******* useless file, next to the one regarding dredging on the Somerset levels ....

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B. Eng (Hons) MIET
 11 June 2014 06:54 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Anyone joined the new scheme yet ???

The latest stats for par'p suggest that since the previous 6 month period, ~2400 members have ditched the schemes......though oddly the remaining members seem to have managed to increase the number of notifications made in the last 6 months period by almost 200,000 !


www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/competent-person-self-certification-schemes-statistics

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:beer)
 11 June 2014 11:25 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 8783
Joined: 23 April 2005

The NICEIC charge £3.60 per notification and I think the others are around the same figure so at that rate that is £1.44M increase a year. No wonder they are so keen to retain notifications and get back the old system of notifications.

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 23 June 2014 11:21 AM
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Zs

Posts: 3814
Joined: 20 July 2006

Going right back to one of the early posts. Andy Sparkingchip, do you know any more about the granddad rights on this?

Napit have published about it in CP magazine and it clearly states NVQ3 required. Know any more Andy? I'm career planning and considering crossing this off my list at the same time as taking other risks. Crossroads anyone?

There were also rumbles about a set fee for this service...anyone know about that? That too might make this a viable crossing off.

But the comfort zone of a relationship with LABC is still there at the moment, feels like a big step, or the closing of a door.

Might be time though, to retrieve my soul from the devil.

Ry Zs Cooder
 23 June 2014 12:31 PM
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Zoro

Posts: 300
Joined: 31 July 2011

it is a bit like a protection racket, you have to keep paying someone money to declare you Competent, although you have been assessed as Competent for Years and are Qualified.

You have to keep paying the man money Zs, because if you leave after two years you will suddenly become Incompetent and the Schemes Owners more importantly, will lose revenue and profit.

.
 23 June 2014 01:36 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3814
Joined: 20 July 2006

Ah, Zoro, in this case the Devil is the Third Party Inspector thing. I've been doing this for quite a while. I'll remain registered as Charley Sparky for as long as I can produce enough work to show an assessor. I like being registered.

This year was quite amusing....I had very little to offer the assessor so I pulled in a rewire for it and ended up having a great time on that job. Whilst on it though, I promptly forgot how to design an installation. Thermal whats?

Here's a similar thing that's going on at the moment...You know if you are buying a house you have to pay for your solicitor to get the land registry done and it comes via the council? Well, a few years ago some bright people realised that the actual search was possible for free, and quickly, via the internet and that's exactly what the councils were using. So services were established to offer a quick turnaround. A bit of insurance and off they went. Then, they fell out with the Councils and it all got a bit silly, so they complained to the Government and had a select committee process during which they aired all their frustrations about each other. '££Kerching', thought the government. Money for old rope. The report was much delayed. The Queen's speech day arrives and there it is...Land registry is going to be privatised. Well waddayouknow.


I'm on 50/50 for the time being so as to keep both skills in the top drawer. But change in the politics and operations of Part P, now affecting inspection skills etc, might be the messenger of change here. It's scary though. I imagine we will eventually divide into those with dirty hands and those with blue collars and clip-boards. That'll be a shame.

Zs
 23 June 2014 02:08 PM
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normcall

Posts: 8514
Joined: 15 January 2005

I bailed out of being an approved contractor in 1983 and when the new system came in in 2005, I applied again only to find I was then completely incompetent.
Still am!

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Norman
 23 June 2014 04:48 PM
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stephenbiddle

Posts: 259
Joined: 18 January 2003

I've tried to be polite and reasonable, I registered etc, but the whole thing is an utter shambles, have given up on the lot of them - all we can do is spread the word.

(I would get some satisfaction if I heard that the NIC NAPIT and ECA had all been rejected from the scheme due to incompetance)

Stephen
 23 June 2014 06:19 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: Zs



There were also rumbles about a set fee for this service...anyone know about that?



AFAIK, not set as such, but somewhere in the poop produced 'they' reckoned it'd be reasonable to charge about £70 to notify via the 3PRC scheme - rather than the hundreds some BCOs have been charging for the exact same service - theres a link out there somewhere, but can't find it at the mo.

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:beer)
 24 June 2014 06:48 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8514
Joined: 15 January 2005

"rather than the hundreds some BCOs have been charging for the exact same service"

Not quite. Registered contractors never make mistakes or cut corners. Also carry out the correct inspections of their work, soit's really just an admin fee.
LABC fee covers the cost of an inspection (like drains etc) and admin. The one thing that has always made me wonder is that for most other work under the Building Regulations, plans etc are required, but for services nothing apart from a fee.

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Norman
 17 September 2014 06:36 PM
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weirdbeard

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Joined: 26 September 2011

Hi All......Well here we are almost 18 months on from the 3PRC being a route publicised to all officialy as being an available method of notifacation............... and there are still no certifiers!!...... who ever gave the go ahead to put this farce in motion by including it in the Par'P 2013 update should be publicly shamed and given the boot!



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:beer)
 19 October 2014 02:16 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

From linkedin: Ascertiva (NICEIC)


"Ascertiva is one of the world's leading third party certification companies"

How bizzare is it that one of the worlds leading third party certification companies, representing the majority of Part P collaborators chose not to even submit an application to the uk's ONLY electrical third party certification scheme:


https://www.gov.uk/third-party-certification-schemes-for-domestic-electrical-work#current-schemes

?

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:beer)
 19 October 2014 08:47 PM
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Zoro

Posts: 300
Joined: 31 July 2011

Well Weirdbeard,
All the Scams care about is membership numbers and the Directors salaries, they are worried that people will leave, and set up QS based systems locally where one qualified Competent person, signs off the work of people in the area.

Which would actually increase standards as the QS in an NICEIC company may only have a 17th Regs exam, it is possible for the QS to have nothing at all, if the Scams use the phrase "Equivalent Learning Outcomes", which translates into having a Chequebook.
.
 19 October 2014 09:39 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 2300
Joined: 01 April 2006

That website you put on indicates that installations can be checked for electricians that have not joined a Government approved part P scheme by the local authority or a private sector approved inspector . There is a list of private sector approved inspectors. Maybe the private inspectors just issue blanket approved for everything when completed, including part P, although it's likely they may have some sort of Electrical qualification.


https://www.gov.uk/third-party-certification-schemes-for-domestic-electrical-work
 19 October 2014 09:42 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9387
Joined: 22 July 2004

It does makes you wonder what fun you could have if things like dentistry, or medicine were operated along the same lines...

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regards Mike
 19 October 2014 10:21 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 8783
Joined: 23 April 2005

Mike

"It does makes you wonder what fun you could have if things like dentistry, or medicine were operated along the same lines... "

That's an easy one on the basis I have done a 5 day First Aid course ( 5 day wonder) and I have a lot of tools including drills I could be bodging up peoples teeth and making a few quid or doing a bit of eye or brain surgery if I can show my assessor I have the required books!

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 19 October 2014 10:32 PM
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ebee

Posts: 6340
Joined: 02 December 2004

My tenpenorth.
I originally registered with Elecsa.
Was incensed when they jumped into bed bed with NIC.
But respect when they both rejected third party thingy.
Next year I will leave the fold. iv`e had enough.
TWONKERS

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
IET » Wiring and the regulations » New Part P notifications after April

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