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Topic Title: Zone 1 in a wetroom
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Created On: 15 August 2017 08:57 PM
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 15 August 2017 08:57 PM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

Hi - More concise post this time, sorry the last one was too rambly on my part...

My wetroom room (not complete) - all ceilings < 2.25m high.

Working to the Green Book: Fig 701.1 has a diagram

Similar shape - handy.

Questions:

1) 701.32.3 says Zone 1 extends 1.2m from the "centre point of the fixed water outlet"

What happens if that's a hose with a movable hand held shower head? I can find no further clarification.

Is 1.2m taken from the water outlet on the mixer on the wall, or from the shower head? Latter seems ambiguous as the hose could be any length.

2) What is outside of Zone 1 within the room? Zone 2 or "Outside the Zones"? That doesn't seem to be fully clear.

3) Therefore am I free to install the bases of 2 ceiling pull switches, mains humidistat and shaver socket (BS EN 61558-2-5) outside of Zone 1 *in this scenario*?

701.512.3 Says "In zone 2" shaver socket OK, but "switches and socket outlets of SELV circuits"

So this hinges on the answer to (2).

Many thanks if anyone can clarify any of those

Thank you,

Tim
 15 August 2017 09:02 PM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

The actual space

Zone 1 in purple chalk is based on the purple mixer bar drawn towards the left.

Red Zone 1 edge is based on a shower mixer being dead centre the the left hand space.

Both clear the shaver socket by miles.
 15 August 2017 09:33 PM
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geoffsd

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1) Mmm. Not sure - if you don't have a fixed outlet.
You can't call the mixer an outlet, can you?

2) 701.32.4 says there is no Zone 2.

3) Yes.
 15 August 2017 09:47 PM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

Thanks very much Geoff for your reply: 2+3 is a very good start I'll probably play safe and push the electrics as far from Zone 1 as possible to allow for someone coming along and re-installing the shower more to the centre...

1) Still open if there are any takers? I can design a fixed shower, but if I can legitamatly use a hose, that would be better, because I prefer hoses

Cheers Tim

PS - might sub this out to an Elecsa chap I know - then his name can go on the MWC But I've still got to set it up so he has a fighting chance!
 16 August 2017 06:54 AM
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ebee

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Joined: 02 December 2004

extend zones in all directions by the length of the hose fitted.

Yes I know it can be changed later

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 16 August 2017 09:27 AM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

Thank you ebee. If the 1.2m is derived from an adult's armspan (both arms) it makes sense - he holds showerhead whilst also touching electrical thingy.

OK - fixed head it is... Much appreciation for saving me from an expensive mistake
 16 August 2017 10:01 AM
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AJJewsbury

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What happens if that's a hose with a movable hand held shower head? I can find no further clarification.

I find it ambiguous too - the words could well mean the mixer valve (or separate wall outlet union), but I wonder if the intention was the position of the handset when it's located in its fixed wall bracket or riser rail - I guess if you work to the worst of both cases you can't go wrong.

As for the others I agree with Geoff - there is no zone 2 so beyond zone 1 is outsize zones in this case.

BTW I had a humidistat in the bathroom of my previous house (to boost the ventilation system) for many years and never had any problems with it triggering in the small hours etc. A decent unit with a wide hysterisis should be fine.

- Andy.
 16 August 2017 11:22 AM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

Thanks Andy,

It seems that fixed head showers are harder to come by than I expected... Hmm...

The humidistat could go at the very far end over the loo, I have spare conduit in that part of the ceiling void...

I *could* put the switches outside - that would be no huge disaster. Or I could get clever and put the switch bases in the attic void and drop the cords down through bushes in the ceiling, possibly using hand bent plastic conduit as a cord guide That would be novel...

Have to lose the shaver socket though.

It does say "fixed water outlet" (or words very similar) - cannot see how that could apply to the free end of a hose - but the lack of clarity on hoses is annoying.

Just found this, with a new search term in google:

http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...id=205&threadid=48482

Reply 3 is interesting...
 16 August 2017 11:23 AM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
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Odd - my tinypics don't work...
 16 August 2017 12:00 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 15812
Joined: 13 August 2003

I *could* put the switches outside - that would be no huge disaster. Or I could get clever and put the switch bases in the attic void and drop the cords down through bushes in the ceiling, possibly using hand bent plastic conduit as a cord guide That would be novel...

Or, what I did in my old bathroom where I wanted 'boost' buttons for the heating & ventilation and the only practical place for them was on the bath panel, was to use pneumatic buttons and the switch mechanism mounted outside of the bathroom - this kind of thing http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/air-switches/8370975/ and http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/...?origin=PSF_428263|acc (both latching and momentary versions are available).
- Andy.
 16 August 2017 12:07 PM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
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Funky... I wonder if I could fit a pair of those in a double blanking plate? Then I could stick them on the shaver socket back box (nice and deep, conduit there to take air pipes to attic)

How responsive are they? If I use on the light, I would use it to feed an Z-Wave module that expects momentary contact input (Fibaro 2 dimmer, great unit, have several already) - the module requires double clicking and triple clicking for certain functions...
 16 August 2017 01:45 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 15812
Joined: 13 August 2003

I wonder if I could fit a pair of those in a double blanking plate?

I can't be sure as the design looks to have changed a bit since I did mine - but I think the ones I had would probably just fit width-wise. Depth wise might be a challenge - I do remember them being quite deep - and the air tube exits out the back too, so you'd need a fair bit more than just the button depth.

How responsive are they?

There was a fair bit of travel (20mm or so) against a spring, so certainly not a easy 'click', but not too bad either - certainly nothing like as bad as the old pneumatic time-lag switches. Might have been better with shorter air tube though (mine was about 3m). I guess it depends on how rapidly the 2- or 3-clicks need to be - if within a couple of seconds you'd probably be OK with a bit of practice.

- Andy.
 16 August 2017 02:31 PM
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TimJWatts

Posts: 390
Joined: 07 August 2013

Thanks Andy.

The double click is to go direct to full brightness (Fibaro have a programmable "default on" setting which is nice, so you can over spec the lights without going blind every time you turn them on)

Triple click is for ZWave network inclusion - if it proves troublesome, I could add another conventional momentary switch in parallel in the cupboard outside the shower...
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