IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Bonding
Topic Summary: Assume PME
Created On: 26 May 2017 08:10 AM
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
<< 1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 27 May 2017 01:01 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



geoffsd

Posts: 1783
Joined: 15 June 2010

Not quite sure of the point you are making.



Also, I do not see the point of some guidance document written by someone stating solutions to problems which do not exist.

"Non-compliances with the current edition of BS7671 that do not give rise to danger and do not require reporting".

So what? Who says?
It's up to the inspector. If he cannot do the job without a guidance document then he shouldn't be doing EICRs.



I note that in the referred item, they have not addressed the fact that 544.1.2 requires (main) bonding to a part which may not be an extraneous-c-p while leaving unbonded the part which is.
Also, not including "where practicable" which is in that regulation.

Merely copying parts of something is only going to cause more confusion.

Why do they bother?
 27 May 2017 02:00 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: geoffsd

Not quite sure of the point you are making.




Hi geoff, assuming you are reffering to my previous post, I was posting a documentary link to reasonable advice directly concerning the ops question

-------------------------
:beer)
 27 May 2017 03:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 1743
Joined: 24 August 2011

Must be the falling standards slipping into the network side
I assume you cannot enquire anymore to determine the earthing arrangement?
 27 May 2017 04:09 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



alancapon

Posts: 6933
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: NMBelectrical
. . . does that spell the end for reduced size main bonds in any UKPN areas?

What do the DNO say? You are relying on their fuse for the first bit of an installation, so they will have an opinion, which may be given on their website.

My employer (a DNO) require 25mm tails and a 16mm main earth conductor for all supplies at 100A per phase or less, regardless of the earthing type provided. Even for a TT we require the main earth conductor available in a suitable block adjacent to the meter.

Regards,

Alan.
 27 May 2017 04:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

Stroma is another CPS. In the UKPN document linked by Leckie, they state to treat their whole network as PME and size Main bonds in accordance with 544.1.1.
That NIC document is in relation to EICR rather than installation.
We had a site temporary supply connected up to PME last week. One of our lads had driven a rod in the ground and then for some reason left a 16mm out with the tails as well. Meter guys connected it up to PME.

Nick
 27 May 2017 05:53 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: NMBelectrical

Stroma is another CPS. In the UKPN document linked by Leckie, they state to treat their whole network as PME and size Main bonds in accordance with 544.1.1.

That NIC document is in relation to EICR rather than installation.

We had a site temporary supply connected up to PME last week. One of our lads had driven a rod in the ground and then for some reason left a 16mm out with the tails as well. Meter guys connected it up to PME.



Thanks for the reply nick, could you quote that bit from leckies linked page, can't find it?

The only mention of Pme is

"TN-S was the default earthing system pre-1978 before PME became commonplace."

-------------------------
:beer)
 27 May 2017 06:07 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 8792
Joined: 23 April 2005

Weirdbear

In answer to your question above, "What's a stroma? "

I think it refers to Stroma Certification one of the government approved competent person schemes just like NICEIC and NAPIT.

You can find details here, LINK

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 27 May 2017 08:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: John Peckham

Weirdbear

In answer to your question above, "What's a stroma? "


I think it refers to Stroma Certification one of the government approved competent person schemes just like NICEIC and NAPIT.


You can find details here, LINK


Thanks John, though do stromas have any powers to supercede BS7671?, if it looks like TNS then it isn't PME!

-------------------------
:beer)
 27 May 2017 08:22 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NMBelectrical

Posts: 56
Joined: 28 February 2017

My apologies Weirdbeard, I got my articles crossed, it was the stroma article that stated that. Its available on the PE website.
Nick
 27 May 2017 09:52 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zoomup

Posts: 3426
Joined: 20 February 2014

Yep. P.M.E. is the preferred type of earthing supplied (if permissible) by U.K.P.N. http://www.ukpowernetworks.co....ur-services/earthing/

Z.
 27 May 2017 10:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 8792
Joined: 23 April 2005

Weirdbeard

In what way do you think that Stroma has superseded BS7671? Have you read the article?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 27 May 2017 10:33 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 8792
Joined: 23 April 2005

I found a link to the article
PE LINK
">http://professional-electricia...roma-what-on-earth/[/S</a>

Sorry I cannot get the link to work, Just Google Professional Electrician Magazine May 2017, then select "Features" and then the "Page 2" tab it is called "What on Earth".

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/

Edited: 27 May 2017 at 10:41 PM by John Peckham
 28 May 2017 01:12 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



geoffsd

Posts: 1783
Joined: 15 June 2010

 28 May 2017 04:38 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



spinlondon

Posts: 5494
Joined: 10 December 2004

Originally posted by: weirdbeard
Thanks John, though do stromas have any powers to supercede BS7671?, if it looks like TNS then it isn't PME!

It's not a matter of BS7671 being superseded, it's a matter of compliance with BS7671.
The requirement refers to "where PME conditions apply".
PME conditions could apply where an installation is TN-S or TT, not just where an installation is TN-C-S.
 28 May 2017 04:11 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

No further comment, cheers

-------------------------
:beer)
 28 May 2017 04:20 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: John Peckham

I found a link to the article

http://

]http://professional-electrician.com/features/stroma-what-on-earth/">PE LINK</a>

">http://professional-electricia...roma-what-on-earth/[/S</a>



Sorry I cannot get the link to work, Just Google Professional Electrician Magazine May 2017, then select "Features" and then the "Page 2" tab it is called "What on Earth".


Item 2 of the forums conditions auto prevents links deemed not to satisfy the following: "The discussion areas may not be used for the promotion of products and services of any kind, nor for recruitment advertising; potential advertisers are invited to contact our Advertising Department. However, this condition should not discourage users from suggesting a product that may assist a genuine enquirer who has raised a specific problem. In such circumstances, users should obey the custom among professional engineers of declaring any interest.

Your best bet is fudge the link and let someone else correct it

-------------------------
:beer)
 28 May 2017 04:42 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 8792
Joined: 23 April 2005

Weibeard

NMB Electrical directed you to the source of the information. I attempted to insert a link to the article in PE Magazine but it did not work. I was not promoting PE Magazine just referencing the source of the information in the same way as you posted a link to a web site above.

It is a pity you have declared that you will make no further comment on the subject as I would be interested in yours and others points of view.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/

Edited: 28 May 2017 at 04:50 PM by John Peckham
 28 May 2017 08:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: John Peckham

Weibeard

NMB Electrical directed you to the source of the information. I attempted to insert a link to the article in PE Magazine but it did not work. I was not promoting PE Magazine just referencing the source of the information in the same way as you posted a link to a web site above.

It is a pity you have declared that you will make no further comment on the subject as I would be interested in yours and others points of view.


Hi john, to be fair I think the OP has misinterpreted this bit of the link as meaning that they dont need to know about the existing earthing arrangements nor bother attempting to find out, just need to apply table 54.8 everywhere:

"Whilst DNOs are under a statutory duty to confirm the means of earthing to consumer's installations, this may be difficult and time-consuming to verify."

-------------------------
:beer)
 28 May 2017 09:19 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



weirdbeard

Posts: 3116
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: John Peckham


I think it refers to Stroma Certification one of the government approved competent person schemes just like NICEIC and NAPIT.



I think it's the same STOMA mentioned here:
http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...d=205&threadid=103149

Or the stoma mentioned here

http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...tid=205&threadid=39960

-------------------------
:beer)
 28 May 2017 11:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



spinlondon

Posts: 5494
Joined: 10 December 2004

Yes.
STROMA*
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Bonding

<< 1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

New here?


See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2017 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.

..