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Topic Title: Disabled bath (Arjo Parker) in wetroom - power supply ?
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Created On: 11 January 2015 05:08 PM
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 11 January 2015 05:08 PM
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jonesmj

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Joined: 11 January 2015

Seen a number of past posts re power sockets in wetrooms, bathrooms etc.

Encountered this problem last week - disabled bath that is moveable limited by the length of hot and cold water supply pipes (has an electrical driven hydraulic pump that raises and tilts bath) delivered to client with a 1.5 metre lead with 13amp plug on the end!! (Bath previously used in a care home and I am reliably informed that it is the same length of cable that they used so must have been plugged into a wall socket in the area where the bath was previously being used). Currently being used by carers who trail an extension lead in to the wetroom!!!!

1.5 m lead gives no chance of complying any of the latest regs in the current location.

Can we open the debate again about power outlets in wetroom/bathrooms, is there a within regs fix for a power supply for this type of installation?

Safety further compounded by a moveable shower head within 3.0m to the right of the bath and a hand held sprayhead on a flexible hose(douche) for the toilet again within 3.0 M of the bath on the lefthand side.

With a longer flex a socket could be sited in a false compartment that is isolated from the wetroom.

Any thoughts?
 11 January 2015 07:04 PM
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sparkingchip

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Joined: 18 January 2003

I would be looking to hard wire it with IP rated gear with the plug cut off,

Andy
 11 January 2015 07:33 PM
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aligarjon

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Joined: 09 September 2005

flex outlet with switch outside the door. clearly it should not be plugged in.

Gary

-------------------------
Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 11 January 2015 08:52 PM
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dickllewellyn

Posts: 1410
Joined: 19 March 2010

if you dont want to cut the plug off, Contactum make an external socket outlet of the type you can shut the lid over a plug, with the ability to lock shut with a padlock. That could be switched by a double pole pull cord as a solution?

-------------------------
Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
 11 January 2015 09:06 PM
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Manxie

Posts: 246
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Section 701 of the Regulations only apply to an area containing a fixed bath.

Regards
Charlie

Edited: 11 January 2015 at 09:12 PM by Manxie
 11 January 2015 09:15 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9716
Joined: 22 July 2004

Put the plug and socket in a dry box under the bath, or simply re-fit a longer lead. May have been non-complaint before, may have been fed off an isolating transformer, or a lockable floor box - but generally a 13A Plug in splashing distance is just not a good idea.
Note the zones stop early of there is a partition or similar, but stuffing a wire through a hole in the wall and putting the plug back on is not really sensible.
Change the connector or the lead .If need be there are some nice in-line IP rated switches.


Edit, the maker are American - hence all the references to GFCI and ground bonds in the installation instructions.
I'd ignore all that, and put an IP rated switch on the wall and wire to that.
Also consider a 10mA RCD.
an example

-------------------------
regards Mike


Edited: 11 January 2015 at 09:30 PM by mapj1
 11 January 2015 09:18 PM
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Manxie

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An industrial plug and socket would be the best option..
The zones and section 701 don't apply to this scenario
 11 January 2015 09:23 PM
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sparkingchip

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Really?
 11 January 2015 09:26 PM
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Manxie

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Really?? Is that question for me ?
 11 January 2015 09:32 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9716
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well, OK 701 is intended for a room with a fixed bath or shower, but surely the risk of splashing is more, not less, sor egardless of regmanship, I'd say treat it very much as if it was.- using a bit of gumption, rather than letter of the rules.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 11 January 2015 09:35 PM
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sparkingchip

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 11 January 2015 09:45 PM
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mapj1

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Install instructions - may not be the right model

Recommends fixed wiring anyway both in US and EU, and 10mA RCD.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 11 January 2015 09:46 PM
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Manxie

Posts: 246
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sorry I should have said that I've recently done a spec for a similar job..
Industrial socket fixed to the wall >300mm
Protected by a 30ma Rcd and 10a MCB..
Isolating tx was considered but costs were prohibitive..(6 bathrooms)

Regards
Charlie
 11 January 2015 09:56 PM
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mapj1

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Actually, while I agree 30mA is the regs figure, I'd be wondering about lower (I know that before harmonisation got them Germany used to sometimes have 10mA RCDs in bathroom sockets.)
If your ever mad enough to try this

http://www.bigclive.com/tickle.htm
And I can't recommend it !!
You will appreciate that 10mA is more than enough discomfort to be going on with, and its not as if the load is a 30A ring final full of random stuff, just one well controlled load.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 11 January 2015 10:18 PM
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sparkingchip

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Read the OP again and you will see the bath is in a existing wet room with shower. So that makes it a 701location regardless of the construction of the bath.

That aside it's a bath.

Andy
 11 January 2015 10:37 PM
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Manxie

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Next time you are in a hospital, care home, medical type place,etc have a nose round in their bathrooms.
Electrical equipment and power outlets galore ??
Trained/competent operatives in bathrooms

Regards
Charlie
 11 January 2015 10:51 PM
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sparkingchip

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"Trained/competent operatives in bathrooms "

Which electrical reg covers that exemption?

Andy
 11 January 2015 11:03 PM
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Phillron

Posts: 1411
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Originally posted by: Manxie


Electrical equipment and power outlets galore ??

Trained/competent operatives in bathrooms



Regards

Charlie



Are they for checking the Tesco plastic bags are tied tightly around the plugged in sockets of the extension leads lol
 11 January 2015 11:14 PM
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mapj1

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Joined: 22 July 2004

I sort of agree. You can have exceptions, but then in a modern hospital there should be isolation transformers, insulation monitoring, low value RCDs and all sorts of other stuff behind the 'ordinary' sockets in key places
. I don't think a medical or nursing qualification guarantees any particular level of electrical competence.

Is this true in this particular case - sounds more like its been put in a customized domestic setting now..

-------------------------
regards Mike
 11 January 2015 11:23 PM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 10196
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Originally posted by: Phillron

Originally posted by: Manxie





Electrical equipment and power outlets galore ??



Trained/competent operatives in bathrooms







Regards



Charlie






Are they for checking the Tesco plastic bags are tied tightly around the plugged in sockets of the extension leads lol



I asked one care home owner why there was twin and earth cable hanging loose by the side of a distribution board with MCB tied up in a carrier bags, it does happen in real life!

Anyway is the suggestion that it should be considered a 710 location rather than a 701 then everything will be OK?


Andy
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