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Topic Title: Regulations / Medical Facilities // SPD's Requirements
Topic Summary: Information on requirements for Medical Homes / Surge Protections
Created On: 25 September 2017 07:20 PM
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 25 September 2017 07:20 PM
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rossdeabill

Posts: 7
Joined: 11 October 2010

Good Evening All,

Just after really some answers to a ongoing situation I have so I will try to explain it as best as I can as I cannot disclose too much. Medical facility is by meaning of hospice / Nursing home not a hospital or any theatres.
So first, I am aiming towards really if SPD's are a requirement for facilities, I am aware this is generally as per risk level and for lightening protection on main incoming supply. But is this the same for medical facilities? As I remember seeing a document from the Department of Health and their min requirements for this but I cannot find this now and would like to be pointed in the right direction to this. Mainly that, a) medical facilities should have at least N+1, Generator Backed and UPS backed? Or am I incorrect on this?
Second, Surge Protections are generally installed in most if not all now new installations for lightening / overvoltage. Are there any requirements for this or regulations to check or just GN good place?
Last from what I can think of now, Is there any way other than UKPN to see the transformers and installations they provide into a facility?

Thanks in advance
 25 September 2017 09:25 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Hi,

For starters Hospitals and elderly persons care homes/hospices are not in the same categories.

I'm retired now but in my day we were required to conform to National Health Service HTMs (Technical Memorandums) which covered everything imaginable for HOSPITALS.

Care homes and Hospices are generally private/charities and may have their own requirements drawn up by their consulting engineers.

As far as standby supplies are concerned again the NHS HTMs may require the power systems to be split into 'essential' and 'non essential' circuits so as to keep the standby load to a minimum.

For care homes rather than go for a full generator backed system emergency lighting and UPS backup for essential services may be satisfactory.

I recall Furse published some useful information regarding SPDs. Got it somewhere but sounds like a risk assessment would be appropriate.

Ned
 25 September 2017 09:39 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

You will find useful guidance here
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-electrical-services-supply-and-distribution-within-healthcare-premises
 26 September 2017 01:12 AM
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rossdeabill

Posts: 7
Joined: 11 October 2010

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it. Just to make clear this is potentially a nursing home. Also something would like to get clear which perhaps was not clear on so let's just hypothetically say, building a was part of building a, I at one point. So then building a,I got sold off so then is separate from building A. Now here is the question which I have researched a little but just to help me. Building A had 4 No. Supplies from UKPN TX. This then got changed by others. So, turned into 2 No, Supplies, 1 No. Supply being also a building was sold off the Cut off is in this demise (building A) and also MCCB also in building A with also meter. Now was this legal edition to do this? This then stands with the meter company I guess. But others have not notified UKPN because surely this should then be moved (the cut off) to their demise and cable to go to their facility then a MCCB etc ?
 26 September 2017 01:13 AM
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rossdeabill

Posts: 7
Joined: 11 October 2010

Thank you
 26 September 2017 01:16 AM
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rossdeabill

Posts: 7
Joined: 11 October 2010

Can you give me a pm please ?
 26 September 2017 01:21 AM
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rossdeabill

Posts: 7
Joined: 11 October 2010

Originally posted by: Nedryerson

Hi,



For starters Hospitals and elderly persons care homes/hospices are not in the same categories.



I'm retired now but in my day we were required to conform to National Health Service HTMs (Technical Memorandums) which covered everything imaginable for HOSPITALS.



Care homes and Hospices are generally private/charities and may have their own requirements drawn up by their consulting engineers.



As far as standby supplies are concerned again the NHS HTMs may require the power systems to be split into 'essential' and 'non essential' circuits so as to keep the standby load to a minimum.



For care homes rather than go for a full generator backed system emergency lighting and UPS backup for essential services may be satisfactory.



I recall Furse published some useful information regarding SPDs. Got it somewhere but sounds like a risk assessment would be appropriate.



Ned


So also what you are saying if a nursing home, private, this would always need 2 supplies from 2 TX UKPN ATS Generator backed and also UPS so surely this would also ensure they have a SPD installed aswell....
 26 September 2017 08:52 AM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Quick thought before going out.

I have been involved with many care homes and none of them had a standby generator. Patient call, lighting, IT, security systems, etc generally battery backed.

However a hospice and a nursing home have different requirements as there are life critical systems running. Indeed, our local hospice has a fully rated standby generator which even keeps the laundry fully operational during a loss of main event.

Ned
 26 September 2017 10:38 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16114
Joined: 13 August 2003

Second, Surge Protections are generally installed in most if not all now new installations for lightening / overvoltage. Are there any requirements for this or regulations to check or just GN good place?

While SPDs may be more common than they used to be, I think we're still a long way from them being in every new installation. BS 7671 currently only requires them if the supply is by overhead lines and there are more than 25 thunderstorm days per year in the area (which isn't the case for the UK) or if your risk assessment deems them necessary - see section 443.

BTW - SPDs are useless for prolonged overvoltage (e.g. high L-N voltage due to a broken supply N and unbalanced loads).

- Andy.
 26 September 2017 04:16 PM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

Lets look at the supplies which you describe as follows:-

Building A had 4 No. Supplies from UKPN TX. This then got changed by others. So, turned into 2 No, Supplies, 1 No. Supply being also a building was sold off the Cut off (DO YOU MEAN ISOLATOR?) is in this demise (building A) and also MCCB also in building A with also meter. (What do you mean by DEMISE?)

Not quite sure what that all means but normally the supply from the transformer would be metered at HV or LV and in this case it would appear that it is/was metered at LV presumably via CT metering.

The usual arrangement downstream would be for a Main LV Switchboard to make it's appearance and I would guess this is where the 4 supplies to LV sub distribution boards in the original building emanated from.

You then say that there is a second meter and ask is this legal ? There would be nothing illegal for a landlord to sub meter to say a group of apartments in a block. This arrangement may have been entered into to avoid DNO charges for providing a new supply into the building which has been sold off.

I am trying to read between the lines here but if you could better describe the network it would be helpful.

Net
 26 September 2017 07:29 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16114
Joined: 13 August 2003

(What do you mean by DEMISE?)

Not one I knew either, but my dictionary offers 'transfer property for a limited period; lease', which might fit (the other definitions seem to be death related).
- Andy.
 26 September 2017 11:25 PM
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gkenyon

Posts: 4982
Joined: 06 May 2002

Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

Second, Surge Protections are generally installed in most if not all now new installations for lightening / overvoltage. Are there any requirements for this or regulations to check or just GN good place?


While SPDs may be more common than they used to be, I think we're still a long way from them being in every new installation. BS 7671 currently only requires them if the supply is by overhead lines and there are more than 25 thunderstorm days per year in the area (which isn't the case for the UK) or if your risk assessment deems them necessary - see section 443.
It's not that simple. See Note to 443.2. Hence, the DPC to 18th Edition has some modifications to 443.

Just noting that, an interpretation to the 17th Edition (current Regs) might have a different spin in 12 months' time.

The big issue, is that, in reality, the approach for SPDs (and lightning protection in general) needs to be a coordinated approach to BS EN 62305 ... there's more than just the basic "LV power installation" in modern premises, and SPDs on, for example, the data network / telecoms lines may be rendered ineffective by lack of SPDs in the LV electrical installation (and vice-versa) ... which is why it's important to point out that SPDs are required in BS 7671 (and also there are the odd electrical safety requirement for SPDs in the LV installation ).

-------------------------
EUR ING Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
G Kenyon Technology Ltd

Web-Site: www.gkenyontech.com
 27 September 2017 09:01 AM
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Nedryerson

Posts: 109
Joined: 12 December 2009

If we replace DEMISE by PREMISES it makes more sense
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