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Topic Title: Part P Review (Conclusion)
Topic Summary: Another one for R&R
Created On: 31 October 2012 12:43 PM
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 31 October 2012 12:43 PM
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SAMJAKE

Posts: 430
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As far as I understood we were supposed to be hearing the conclusion during October. Well I certainly have not read or heard anything.
Anybody else out there with any concrete information.
 31 October 2012 06:17 PM
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SAMJAKE

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This has brought a lot of interest.
 01 November 2012 10:04 AM
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AJJewsbury

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Lots of interest ... just no concrete information!
- Andy.
 01 November 2012 04:31 PM
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Zs

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A birdy tells me that it was put to bed Samjake. I don't suppose it will be too long to wait for someone to type it all up for us.

Zs
 01 November 2012 06:12 PM
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jcm256

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You can read the debate: web site below]

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/...?id=2012-09-06a.159.0


There is a new man involved.

I want clearly to say that I am going to disappoint all hon. Members present, but also in one sense to please them as well. I will disappoint them by saying that we have made no decisions on any of the issues. We are continuing to consult and to consider, and no decisions have been made. We will make them as quickly as possible. I hope, however, that it will please people to know that my mind is not closed on any issues that have been raised, and I immediately promise that all of them will be considered carefully - not only those raised today, but those raised by other people.
They are all ears to the ECS (And you know who funds them)

All Members will have received an important briefing from the Electrical Safety Council. More than any other information I received, it highlighted that the result of the regulations being in place is an excellent safety record. That is a very strong argument for keeping them as they are. The ESCsaid that in its opinion, part P



The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) indeed: did they mean UKAS,

Edited: 01 November 2012 at 06:19 PM by jcm256
 01 November 2012 09:06 PM
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SAMJAKE

Posts: 430
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Originally posted by: jcm256

You can read the debate: web site below]



http://www.theyworkforyou.com/...12-09-06a.159.0





There is a new man involved.



I want clearly to say that I am going to disappoint all hon. Members present, but also in one sense to please them as well. I will disappoint them by saying that we have made no decisions on any of the issues. We are continuing to consult and to consider, and no decisions have been made. We will make them as quickly as possible. I hope, however, that it will please people to know that my mind is not closed on any issues that have been raised, and I immediately promise that all of them will be considered carefully - not only those raised today, but those raised by other people.

They are all ears to the ECS (And you know who funds them)



All Members will have received an important briefing from the Electrical Safety Council. More than any other information I received, it highlighted that the result of the regulations being in place is an excellent safety record. That is a very strong argument for keeping them as they are. The ESCsaid that in its opinion, part P

Yes I read this weeks ago.
Basically the government wants nothing to do with it, it will be up to scam providors to pay for publicity, because the government will not.
Oh well the only thing to change are the scam fees will be more expensive, to pay for the adverts







The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) indeed: did they mean UKAS,
 02 November 2012 12:37 PM
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rocknroll

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LOL Oh no not Part P again.

Do you really want me to ruin your weekend.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 02 November 2012 at 01:08 PM by rocknroll
 02 November 2012 01:23 PM
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Pactrol

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More proof part P dosen,t work

NAPIT says electrical fire casualties are rising
Fire related casualties caused by faulty electrical wiring are on the increase in homes across the UK. Between 2004 and 2011, injuries in this area rose by more than a third whilst fatalities caused by faulty electrical distribution systems tripled, according to statistics from the Department of Communities
 02 November 2012 01:39 PM
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rocknroll

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Wrong, of course Part P is working and is achieving what is was originally designed to do so along with all the other AD's.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 02 November 2012 at 10:07 PM by rocknroll
 02 November 2012 01:46 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: Pactrol

More proof part P dosen,t work

NAPIT says electrical fire casualties are rising

Fire related casualties caused by faulty electrical wiring are on the increase in homes across the UK. Between 2004 and 2011, injuries in this area rose by more than a third whilst fatalities caused by faulty electrical distribution systems tripled, according to statistics from the Department of Communities


Mmmm - I can recall similar rises in fire casualties and electrical incidents during previous recessions. People just don't have the money and look to economise where they can - I'm not sure that it's proof that Part P doesn't work.

Another exanple will be deaths from CO poisoning will increase this year - and I'm sure in a few years time all sorts of scenarios will be blamed for it - or it could just be that it's been a wet summer and some people light barbeques in tents !!

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 November 2012 08:56 AM
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Fm

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Co posioning wont increase, because boilers with flues that cant be inspected,will be turned off.
Cant see the el cheapo landlords coughing up for hatches etc. again thise caught in the poverty trap will suffer
 03 November 2012 03:59 PM
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briandoherty

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Originally posted by: Fm
Co posioning wont increase, because boilers with flues that cant be inspected,will be turned off.
Cant see the el cheapo landlords coughing up for hatches etc. again thise caught in the poverty trap will suffer


But, as they'll be categorised 'At Risk' rather than 'Immediately Dangerous', they won't have been capped off, so 'el cheapo landlord' or whoever may well just continue running the boiler as happens frequently today!

-------------------------
Regards,

Brian
 03 November 2012 06:34 PM
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Fm

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I wouldnt be signing off at risk if i couldnt see the flue for its flue length.
So it will be switched off and will cost more for hatches and a re test, a win win situation for the gas emgineer.
 03 November 2012 08:16 PM
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jcm256

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Meanwhile in another part of the UK.

Carbon monoxide alarms have become a legal requirement in all new homes in Northern Ireland.

The new law also requires that an alarm be fitted whenever a boiler or solid fuel stove is upgraded or replaced.

From 31 October, Northern Ireland Building Regulations will require a carbon monoxide detector or alarm "in the room where the appliance is located. However, if the combustion appliance is installed in a room or space not normally used e.g. a boiler room/cupboard, the detector/alarm should be located just outside the room or space".

http://www.heatingandventilati...t+varies+across+the+UK

Edited: 04 November 2012 at 11:27 AM by jcm256
 06 November 2012 08:58 AM
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zeeper

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More proof part P dosen,t work

NAPIT says electrical fire casualties are rising



Well it looks like the goverment is only listening to the NICEIC on this matter, O sorry I Mean ESC. So its lucky we got a independant charity looking out for the industry.

Wrong, of course Part P is working and is achieving what is was originally designed to do so along with all the other AD's


Obviously, we know what its doing its jst getting the people in charge to admit to it.
 06 November 2012 10:56 AM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: zeeper

Wrong, of course Part P is working and is achieving what is was originally designed to do so along with all the other AD's


Obviously, we know what its doing its jst getting the people in charge to admit to it.


Its only you lot that is under some illusion that Part P is some sort of conspiracy against electricians when those around at the time know the real truth, and now once again a history lesson, in the 80's it was noticed by the various professional organisations such as RICS, CIBSE etc, that the build standards were dropping rapidly and were calling for some sort of consistency or 'common build' standard, this coincided with a number of events, the relaxation in planning especially those who had land were able to build houses, the various self-build schemes around and the important issue was the rise of the small business or one man band operations from people who had lost their jobs in mainly the engineering sector and later the 'Decent Home Standards' which was eventually brought in around 2000, from this was borne Approved Documents A-P which resulted in a common standard from the DIYer to the professional builder ensuring our homes are 'decent' safe, light, space, insulated and well built etc, etc,.

Safety was not the issue then and is still not, for the last forty years the figures regarding incidents has been good and consistent for something that is classed as a necessary hazard, as OMS pointed out there have been trends and this will continue for the next hundred years unless you run out of electricity, it is true that it is probably much safer now than forty years ago but thats no thanks to you, you are not any different to the sparky's of that time, what has contributed to that is technology, MCB's, RCD's, safer appliances etc, and this is recognised by the government.

Where it all went wrong was the involvement with the schemes leading to the fiasco we have today, the government of the day should have stuck to the original proposal that whether you were a DIYer, non-registered or registered contractor you all paid and were treated the same, the government have been reminded on many occasions that this tier system does breach some common and EU laws and hopefully this is in consideration for the future.

With regard to the OP I can only say that most of the work has been done and our group finished their analysis and research for the various parties some two months ago, the tasks we had were mainly dealing with the GSR, clarification of EU barrier to trade agreements and the final meeting of your schemes calls for you all to be UKAS accredited.

All I can say is that Don Foster is 'very very' liberal and the fat lady has not been booked for a dress rehearsal just yet, the last I heard was that Mr Common-Sense Touchy Feely's office has expressed an interest, I am not with the DCLG so it would not be cricket for me to comment further.

Be patient I think you will all be okay and be able to compete on an even playing field.

As I pointed out before the final meeting will focus mainly on the political and economic trends on that day rather than what the NIC, ESC etc, say.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 06 November 2012 at 03:54 PM by rocknroll
 06 November 2012 11:13 AM
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rocknroll

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Basically the government wants nothing to do with it, it will be up to scam providors to pay for publicity, because the government will not.


Why should we waste tax payers money on something that is purely a 'business decision', the information supplied by the government to householders and interested parties at the notification or planning process is more than adequate.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 06 November 2012 at 11:25 AM by rocknroll
 06 November 2012 11:56 PM
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sparkingchip

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"Where it all went wrong was the involvement with the schemes leading to the fiasco we have today, the government of the day should have stuck to the original proposal that whether you were a DIYer, non-registered or registered contractor you all paid and were treated the same, the government have been reminded on many occasions that this tier system does breach some common and EU laws and hopefully this is in consideration for the future."

Where it all went wrong was the Governments insistence that it could all be done at no cost to the consumer as electricians were "only being asked to do what they should have been doing anyway", it would be totally unreasonable for electricians to have to make a full building control application and pay a full fee, however it is costing more than twenty quid a notification anyway, that people think can be absorbed by the electricians as per the Governments of the day original intention.

Too many people want something for nothing, but for LABC to supervise DIY electrical work has to involve a fee that would be unreasonable for the low level of supervision required for a registered electrician.

Andy
 07 November 2012 06:56 AM
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normcall

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" a fee that would be unreasonable for the low level of supervision required for a registered electrician. "
9
Theory and practice somehow got lost in translation.

Most building regulations that require a fee, normally involve (a) a number of people or/and (b) at least a day of time. The small nature of many electrical bits that require notifying really does mean overkill. It would not be the first time I've had a 'while you are here.....' to add a socket in a kitchen. Customers just don't understand why it promptly adds £150 to the price and I have to come back twice just for such a simple job.
Twice? Yes, once to do a hours work and then again to explain to a LABC 'inspector' what I did, as they never manage to fit the inspection in whilst I'm on site.

-------------------------
Norman
 07 November 2012 09:20 PM
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rslane

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or is it that the dodgy wires and junction boxes don't like being covered by all the extra insulation that is now blanketing so many people's lofts
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Part P Review (Conclusion)

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