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Topic Title: What is a G59?
Topic Summary: shhhh, Archers addict.
Created On: 31 May 2008 03:06 PM
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 31 May 2008 03:06 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3011
Joined: 20 July 2006

So there I am in weekend mode, catching up on the week in Ambridge via the BBC iplayer thingummy, which is a big secret, and I'll thank you for not ruining my street cred with the lads on site. When my ears prick up as I hear 'the DNO' mentioned. Oooh, I know about this, thinks I as they say that the DNO need to put up 'thicker wires'. Perleese, say I to the iplayer, thicker wires, who writes this stuff? It's all to do with the forthcoming anaerobic digester you understand. Watch this space, if it happens on the Archers it happens in a village nearby quite soon after.

But, now they are having to fork out for a G59, in order to start feeding back into the grid.

OK, what's one of them then? Sad but true, I have done a bit of googling. Doubtless over the next months I'll become an expert in anaerobic digestion and the production of electricity from methane, but anyone care to waste a bit of time explaining how it really works? Actually quite interesting, the prospect of turning smelly gas into useable electricity. It is obviously cost effective enough to be entertained by smallholders or it wouldn't be going on in Ambridge. I'd have thought it only worth doing on big landfill sites and so on until now.

My baking rivals the best of them of course Home made mince pies = Marks and spencer mince pies, take off foil trays, put on paper napkin, smash them flat and sprinkle icing sugar on top. Never fails.

Better get down the allotment and put some weights on the beans. Flower and veg show approaching.

Linda Zsnell
 31 May 2008 03:39 PM
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intrinsic4225B

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I can't believe you listen to The Archers, Zs!

BBC Radio 4 on a Saturday morning isn't too bad - The News Quiz etc, but the radio goes right off as soon as I hear the opening bars of The Archers theme!
 31 May 2008 03:41 PM
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pnorton

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Google: G59 - the form a DNO requires if a proposed generator, which is to be connected to the grid, produces more than 16 Amps per phase.

Saw a programme a couple of weeks ago called Planet Mechanics. It featured Dick Strawbridge of Its Hard Being Green and Scrap-heap Challenge. He and a colleague were on a farm in Devon where they built a contraption to generate methane from cow manure.

For the digester they used an old slurry tank/spreader. This was heated by radiators lashed up as solar panels. From the top of this tank a pipe led into an open topped pool which was filled with water. In this pool, on a crude guide system, was an open bottom tank which floated as it filled with gas - just like the old gas-holder which people used to call gasometers.

They filled the digester with muck and left it for a month - when they came back the tank was floating high in the pool. The gas was drawn off via a pipe at the top of the tank and their plan was to run a static ex-lawnmower engine to power an oilseed rape mill. However, the engine could not be started - they said it was because the engine was clapped out and end up using the gas to power their barbeque

Hope that helps Zs but if you tried this in the back garden your not going to be popular with the neighbours

Paul

-------------------------
The body is now decrepit but the mind is still active - just!

Edited: 31 May 2008 at 03:44 PM by pnorton
 31 May 2008 04:18 PM
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alancapon

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There is a growing requirement at the moment for private generation to be run in parallel with the public supply system, such that surplus energy can be sold back to the network, and that network energy can be used when the demand is higher than the private generation can supply. The private generation can range from the "b&q" type small wind turbine to much larger configurations.

The small wind turbine has to comply with G.83/1, which sets down certain technical standards that the unit must meet, in terms of allowable supply voltage and frequency at its output terminals. The standard also sets out the speed of shutdown of the device should the public supply fail. This is important, such that the generation cannot start attempting to supply the public network, and perhaps kill a DNO worker trying to repair a fault. Also included, are procedures for starting up the system and re-synchronising it when the public supply reappears. G.83/1 applies to generation connected at LV at a maximum current of 16A per phase. Most DNOs will accept the G.83/1 certificate that is sold with the unit (in the British Isles) as proof of compliance, and no further testing is necessary. The system is designed as a cost-effective approved protection system to be employed with what is afterall a relatively "cheap & cheerful" generator.

For larger systems (above 16A/phase at LV), these must comply with G.59/1. This standard covers parallel generation connected at or below 20kV, and with a maximum output power of 5MW. The same parameters are monitored, but the design of the system is usually a specific design for an application with parameters set by the DNO on a case-by-case basis, rather than an "off the shelf unit" that will comply. The DNO will also request to witness certain tests to prove that the protection system behaves as stated before it is accepted for connection, as there are implications on the safety and integrity of the public electricity supply system. With a larger output power, the requirements for it to react correctly under all circumstances are more stringent.

For larger systems still, an individual design will usually be required, which will often require a high degree of design work by the DNO.


Regards,

Alan.
 31 May 2008 06:17 PM
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Zs

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So, the G59 is a piece of paper. I've been looking for something like a transformer or a bit of real kit in my searchings. That explains that then. Thanks. No, not about to invite you all round for a barby until I have a new fire extinguisher.

Alan, you know things. Impressed.

Hmm, not sure. Quite looking forward to looking up some more though especially given that I'm quite into geothermal heating and have three up and running (properly at last) round here now. It captures me. I can see how a tank of methane and CO2 could be used to power an instantaneous heat source or tank of stored hot water but not sure about burning it. Cue lots of mini buncefields? I just found a Friends of the earth site where they tell me that 5.5 million tonnes (yes, big metric ones)of food waste will produce enough to power 164,000 homes. But for how long? They don't say. That sounds like a monstrous and ugly use of space where geothermal is all happening under the beautiful landscaped garden or park, and doesn't smell.

So, short on research, my instinct is shouting use simple clean geothermal under every hospital and school, and under every new build. Don't go to the expense of collecting and tanking cow poo and the leftovers from La Gavroche to an anaerobic digester, and use the energy saved from the Geothermal to deal with the slurry disposal in the old fashioned way. And don't waste food (but that's another soap box, buy another freezer and use what's in it, grrr).

However, and going round in circles a bit. It appears from the web sites that >16a is quite normal and that's quite alot of juice. but then nobody says if that's constant so there are too many variables. The problem with geothermal is that it isn't storable and it isn't electricity. Mighty impressive though at £1 a month to heat a whole farm down the road through the winter. But turbines a mile out to sea, under the movement of the oceans? Now there's electricity.

Either way, there is a way of using other resources and at £1.30 a litre we might well be going down the chip fat route for our vans someday soon.

Now for intrinsic; Repeat after me: Eclectic! Ok, I love the Archers but I don't normally admit that bit. But 'tis OK I downloaded the latest Usher and the Plain white T's just varied. Any anyway, you might like the Archers. . .10.00 Sunday Morning, the omnibus. Go on. Tomorrow's one even says DNO in it. Come on other archers fans, help me out here

Al, you blocking up the phone lines voting for your local Nancy? Or out looking at motorbikes?

'As looong as 'e needs me

Over the next few years these topics will run and run. Thanks for the education and that simple explanationa about the floating tank, that's what I needed and better than the techy web sites. Clear as mud now, and for sorting out what's going on at Home Farm.

Zs
 31 May 2008 06:20 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: Zs
Al, you blocking up the phone lines voting for your local Nancy?




VOTE SAM


Regards,

Alan.

Edited: 31 May 2008 at 06:21 PM by alancapon
 31 May 2008 06:29 PM
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intrinsic4225B

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Originally posted by: Zs

....anyway, you might like the Archers. . .10.00 Sunday Morning, the omnibus. Go on. Tomorrow's one even says DNO in it.


I think the only time I have come close to listening to The Archers is when they used to parody it on Dead Ringers on a Saturday morning and - many years ago now - Week Ending on a Friday evening!
 01 June 2008 01:09 AM
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johnbyrne

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Hi Zs, I used to be a regular Archers listener, but only listen occassionally now, however I d did hear the episode you mention, whilst eating my chips at diner time. I used to find it fascinating how something agricultural would surface, in say a sunday paper magazine, perhaps a little obscure thing, but it surface a week or so later, to give the farming theme a bit of current credibilty. Who could forget such great moments as Eddie Grundy being asked what he is doing to a sheep, "i'm teaching it to break dancem what do you think", or Shula being poetry - ed in a corn field, by a reporter called Simon , I seem to recall, then Tom Forest singing the village pump,an every day tale of farming folk as the bbc put it.
I'm with you on radio four and you are right to point out that saturday mornings is a particularily good time, the John Peel thing was very good, although obviously no more.Radio four in the past used to turn into the world service overnight, I'm not sure if it still does, but until recently we were broacasting such things as hancocks half hour and the glums to the colonies, along with record requests from people like edwin from Namibia, who has requested Mistletoe and Wine, one wonders if Edwin actually heard it, would he spend the rest of his life recounting the tale, to unbelievers. I've even heard that radio four can be heard on the Isle of Man, but as I live in a village where we still clap if we see a horse, that may be a step to far.
Cheers

Edited: 01 June 2008 at 01:13 AM by johnbyrne
 01 June 2008 06:29 AM
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ebee

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I still get the home srvice on my seven valve phillips

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 01 June 2008 09:17 AM
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John Peckham

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The Archers yuk! Now Radio 4, Desert Island Disks, the Sunday Times, nice pot of tea that's heaven.

John Peckham

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John Peckham

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 01 June 2008 09:49 AM
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Zs

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So now I have to ask you what your luxury would be and which book you would take, and which record you would save if a big wave came and washed all but one of the seven away.

No, you can't have a volt stick. Too functional!

Zs
 01 June 2008 11:19 AM
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John Peckham

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For the luxury my grandfathers tool chest, as you get the Bible (aka BS7671:2008) I would choose Mr Crabtree goes Fishing by Bernard Venables as trip down memory lane to my childhood. The record is more difficult the top 3 being Elgar's Nimrod, Holst Jupiter or HM Band Royal Marines playing Sunset. Probably Sunset which I would play at the end of the day as I haul down my home made Union Jack on my little piece of England in some foreign field.

John Peckham

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John Peckham

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 01 June 2008 11:41 AM
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pnorton

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Originally posted by: johnpeckham

For the luxury my grandfathers tool chest, as you get the Bible (aka BS7671:2008) I would choose Mr Crabtree goes Fishing by Bernard Venables as trip down memory lane to my childhood. The record is more difficult the top 3 being Elgar's Nimrod, Holst Jupiter or HM Band Royal Marines playing Sunset. Probably Sunset which I would play at the end of the day as I haul down my home made Union Jack on my little piece of England in some foreign field.



John Peckham



John, How about "i've got a brand new combine harvester" by the Wurzels?

Zs, have you heard about the "Hot Rocks" geothermal project which was underway in Cornwall a few years ago?

Paul

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 01 June 2008 11:46 AM
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John Peckham

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Not high on my list of music. Thinking about it would Kirsty Young be considered too functional to be a luxury?

John Peckham

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 01 June 2008 12:06 PM
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Zs

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Ha! And yes she would.

But Russell Brand wouldn't be considered functional so I'm alright Jack!

Zs
 01 June 2008 02:25 PM
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intrinsic4225B

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Originally posted by: johnbyrne

"...Radio four in the past used to turn into the world service overnight, I'm not sure if it still does..."


It still does, after the midnight news, the shipping forecast and the National Anthem - returns to BBC Radio 4 programming at 05:20 in the morning, with the shipping forecast.

"...I've even heard that radio four can be heard on the Isle of Man..."


It can probably be recieved on 198kHz which I am told can be received well out to sea around the UK & Ireland, hence why the shipping forecast is carried by BBC Radio 4.
 01 June 2008 04:37 PM
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ebee

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a piece of wire and a crystal earpiece and a bad earthn connection and you can get good old radio 4 in fact it seems to make little difference if you wind a coil get a variable cap and supply a germainium diode.
In fact every coin in yer pocket probably picks it up.

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 01 June 2008 05:12 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: intrinsic4225B
It still does, after the midnight news, the shipping forecast and the National Anthem - returns to BBC Radio 4 programming at 05:20 in the morning, with the shipping forecast.

"...I've even heard that radio four can be heard on the Isle of Man..."



Yes, but to us, that would be the Royal Anthem. Our National Anthem is completely different. The first verse of our National Anthem is:

O land of our birth,
O gem of God's earth,
O Island so strong and so fair;
Built firm as Barrool,
Thy throne of Home Rule
Makes us free as thy sweet mountain air.


There are a further seven verses, but I would have to look those up.


Regards,

Alan.
 01 June 2008 05:16 PM
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ebee

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Alan,
you should know them off by heart.
LOL.
It`s a lovely Island.
Camera Obscura on Douglas Head Always fascinated me as a kid, along with the Laxey Wheel.
It`s been a few years now will have to return

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Ebee (M I S P N)

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 01 June 2008 06:02 PM
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slittle

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I had two trips there about three years ago to a fault on the top of snaefell.
The first was the week before TT, weather was great and plenty of life in the evenings in douglas.
Second time was October, weather was so bad we could not even see the sheep out of the window of the site hut, pubs in douglas got well tested though...
Lovely island, I'll return one day for a pleasure trip rather than business.

Stu
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